2G5-9: quality vs quantity

Learn more about your fellow forum members by participating in these special, burning topics. One new thread per week!

Moderator: Bazz

User avatar
Vibing_V
HYPED UP
HYPED UP
Level 91 — 6017 posts3983 posts to next level
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:02 am

Post by Vibing_V »

Chi wrote:
Lap wrote:Improvement with practise huh? I find watching pornography very educational too.
Pr0n has as much to do with learning how to be a good lay, as watching Anime does to learning Japanese.
Yeah, from watching anime you can pick up a few nouns, maybe a couple of verbs (in some form, not how to conjugate), and a couple of set expressions. In other words, nothing useful.

From pron you learn different positions... but that doesn't necessarily make you a better lay

As for improvement, some people are bad because of a nub factor, but some are just bad cuz they suck or aren't compatible with you. You can get rid of the nub factor, but you can't fix the other two.
(Edit: just to clarify, by "nub factor" I mean inexperience... not inherent nub factor! :p)
Last edited by Vibing_V on Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
V Bling Bling™
User avatar
Mitsurugi CP
Weapon of Choice
Weapon of Choice
Level 91 — 5391 posts4609 posts to next level
Posts: 5391
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:49 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Mitsurugi CP »

There are very few things physically that you can learn well through observation alone, you also have to develop the motions through repetitive practice, as with any sport.
anynomous
Moon|Alfie Moon|Nana Moon
Moon|Alfie Moon|Nana Moon
Level 25 — 58 posts42 posts to next level
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:35 am

Post by anynomous »

Vibing_V wrote:
Chi wrote:
Lap wrote:Improvement with practise huh? I find watching pornography very educational too.
Pr0n has as much to do with learning how to be a good lay, as watching Anime does to learning Japanese.
Yeah, from watching anime you can pick up a few nouns, maybe a couple of verbs (in some form, not how to conjugate), and a couple of set expressions. In other words, nothing useful.
Fact: It is fully possible to learn perfect spoken English from English TV.
Fact: You cannot pick up perfect written English from TV.
Explanation: English is written far from how you pronounce it.
Fact: Japanese is a language just like English is.
Query: Why would it be impossible to learn how to speak and understand Japanese from anime?
Addendum: While one cannot learn kanji from anime (or at least not all of them) one should be able to learn the spoken language.

Declaration: You are wrong.
User avatar
Calbrena
JAKAZiD
JAKAZiD
Level 91 — 9873 posts127 posts to next level
Posts: 9873
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:30 pm
Location: New York

Post by Calbrena »

anynomous wrote:Fact: It is fully possible to learn perfect spoken English from English TV.
:x
I've been watching subbed movies for more than 10 years and I've been watching TV in England for almost 5 year now, 2 years while living there so on a regular basis, and I still don't speak English perfectly and don't understand everything people say, even though I've also studied English for almost 10 years at school/uni.


Also as a language student/teacher I have to disagree with that silly statement :p
anynomous
Moon|Alfie Moon|Nana Moon
Moon|Alfie Moon|Nana Moon
Level 25 — 58 posts42 posts to next level
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:35 am

Post by anynomous »

Fact: Anynomous watched The Children's Channel for 10 hours daily back as a kid. Sleep, kindergarten, TCC, repeat.
Fact: Even without subtitles (anynomous could not read back then) anynomous learned English.
Fact: Anynomous spoke non-perfect English before school.
Fact: Anynomous spoke near-perfect English before any English classes started.
Fact: Anynomous read English perfectly after a few years for English classes.
Fact: Writing constant coherent sentences took many, many more years.

Fact: Anynomous disagrees with you on human learning ability.
Opinion: Humans are able to pick up languages from TV.
Anynomous, as unforgiving as Anonymous.
User avatar
Calbrena
JAKAZiD
JAKAZiD
Level 91 — 9873 posts127 posts to next level
Posts: 9873
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:30 pm
Location: New York

Post by Calbrena »

Do you really want me to quote all the linguists who have explained why children's language acquisition is completely different from adults' language acquisition? :sarc

The fact that you, as a kid, learnt English thanks to TV doesn't make Chi's and Vibing's point any less valid as in their analogy they were quite obviously talking about adults (or even teenagers, that would be the same thing anyway) stupidly trying to learn Japanese only by watching animes, not about children.
User avatar
Vibing_V
HYPED UP
HYPED UP
Level 91 — 6017 posts3983 posts to next level
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:02 am

Post by Vibing_V »

Even if you were able to learn the language present in anime, you would not be able to fully integrate into Japanese society due to the narrow scope of language used in anime.

Only knowing a fraction of a language like that is not the same as knowing the whole lanugage.

You suck.
V Bling Bling™
User avatar
Renge Ishyo
Printworks
Printworks
Level 66 — 758 posts242 posts to next level
Posts: 758
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:26 am
Location: Reseda, CA

Post by Renge Ishyo »

Why that's not true, you can learn a lot about speaking japanese from anime. For example, I learned at least 7 ways to insult people by using derogatory and impolite japanese terms to address them ("Kisama, Omae, etc."), at least 18 different sayings to use when I release my special fighting techniques at people ("Kore de owari da!" Nigasanai yo!"), at least 10 different ways for females to yell "no" and "stop" while being assulated by tentacled creatures (err..), and that's not to mention the thousand or so sound effects and burps that simulate practically every animal on the planet ("chuu", "bbrruuubit", "nhyaynhyanhya").

I mean all you need to do is learn a few other key sayings like "where's the bath room?" and "does this mean I am fired?," and you are practically good to go :check
User avatar
Bazz
Managerial Enforcer
Managerial Enforcer
Level 58 — 534 posts216 posts to next level
Posts: 534
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 5:31 pm
Location: UK

Post by Bazz »

Can you learn Klingon just from watching star trek?
User avatar
DeathSeekr
Red Lion||Pineapple
Red Lion||Pineapple
Level 17 — 31 posts19 posts to next level
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:03 am

Post by DeathSeekr »

Bazz wrote:Can you learn Klingon just from watching star trek?
mmm maybe but i no i couldnt
Live Your Day As If You’re Going To Die Tomorrow, Because One Day When It Does Happen, You Won’t Be Able To Regret Not Living Your Last Day To Your Fullest.
anynomous
Moon|Alfie Moon|Nana Moon
Moon|Alfie Moon|Nana Moon
Level 25 — 58 posts42 posts to next level
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:35 am

Post by anynomous »

Query: Why would language acquiration deteriorate?
Fact: There are more people out there who don't know shit about their profession than people who do know shit about their profession.
Suggestion: Those linguists can go suck it.

Note: "Full integration" wasn't the topic, speaking Japanese was.
Fact: The Japanese will understand you even if you talk "little girl Japanese" present in many animes.
Note: They would be confused as hell though.
Addendum: Possibly highly amused.


Likely fact: Nobody would pay anynomous to sit at his screen watching anime for eight hours a day.
Query: Would somebody like to pay anynomous 1500 dollars a month for true linguistic research?
Anynomous, as unforgiving as Anonymous.
User avatar
Calbrena
JAKAZiD
JAKAZiD
Level 91 — 9873 posts127 posts to next level
Posts: 9873
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:30 pm
Location: New York

Post by Calbrena »

anynomous wrote:Query: Why would language acquiration deteriorate?
Surely that question can't be serious? :! (Note: I assume you meant acquisition?)
But if it is I will look for references and sources in English when I some time to waste :erm

Not gonna answer that now though and you seem so convinced about the contrary and not ready to accept a quick explanation of something that should be obvious @_@


Do I have to tell all my foreign students that they are retards as they can't speak perfectly yet even though they've been living in the country for years for some of them? :?
anynomous
Moon|Alfie Moon|Nana Moon
Moon|Alfie Moon|Nana Moon
Level 25 — 58 posts42 posts to next level
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:35 am

Post by anynomous »

Calbrena wrote:Do I have to tell all my foreign students that they are retards as they can't speak perfectly yet even though they've been living in the country for years for some of them? :?
Answer: Absolutely.
Fact: 99% of the general human population is made of retards. At least.
User avatar
Undine
Dalek
Dalek
Level 66 — 980 posts20 posts to next level
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:40 pm

Post by Undine »

Fact: You don't have to be foreign to be retarded.

Let's get retarded... HAH!
"There are two theories to arguing with women. Neither one works." - anonymous
User avatar
HKK
Legend of Art
Legend of Art
Level 83 — 4229 posts771 posts to next level
Posts: 4229
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: USA

Post by HKK »

Let's get retarded! Let's get retarded in here!
User avatar
Bazz
Managerial Enforcer
Managerial Enforcer
Level 58 — 534 posts216 posts to next level
Posts: 534
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 5:31 pm
Location: UK

Post by Bazz »

It seems to me that it takes children a couple of years to even begin to speak, and then like 5 more years to fully understand a language. But adults can learn a language in a year if they go at it 100%.
But what do I know, I got an F in French at school...
User avatar
Renge Ishyo
Printworks
Printworks
Level 66 — 758 posts242 posts to next level
Posts: 758
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:26 am
Location: Reseda, CA

Post by Renge Ishyo »

Undine wrote:Fact: You don't have to be foreign to be retarded.
:check It just helps is all...
User avatar
Vibing_V
HYPED UP
HYPED UP
Level 91 — 6017 posts3983 posts to next level
Posts: 6017
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:02 am

Post by Vibing_V »

Integration does matter because you can "speak" a language and you can speak a language.

And by speak I mean speaking fluently, not pidgining crap.
V Bling Bling™
anynomous
Moon|Alfie Moon|Nana Moon
Moon|Alfie Moon|Nana Moon
Level 25 — 58 posts42 posts to next level
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:35 am

Post by anynomous »

Definement: As long as you can have almost all conversations without the opposiding side going "Sorry, what?" or/and you going "What's that word again?", you "speak" it enough.
Addendum: That does not equal fluent but rather sufficient. Fluent requires serious effort.
Note: As pointed out, babies don't do it in a day either.
Anynomous, as unforgiving as Anonymous.
User avatar
Calbrena
JAKAZiD
JAKAZiD
Level 91 — 9873 posts127 posts to next level
Posts: 9873
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:30 pm
Location: New York

Post by Calbrena »

Bazz wrote:It seems to me that it takes children a couple of years to even begin to speak, and then like 5 more years to fully understand a language. But adults can learn a language in a year if they go at it 100%.
But what do I know, I got an F in French at school...
You can "learn" quickly if for example you move to a different country, but it will take ages before you speak the language as Vib said.
User avatar
Mitsurugi CP
Weapon of Choice
Weapon of Choice
Level 91 — 5391 posts4609 posts to next level
Posts: 5391
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:49 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Mitsurugi CP »

Calbrena wrote: You can "learn" quickly if for example you move to a different country, but it will take ages before you speak the language as Vib said.
Actually, that is the method of teaching language for Peace Corps volunteers. Essentially, they give you basic lessons in the spoken language, and then send you to an area of the country you're serving in where NO ONE speaks English, shocking you into picking up the language faster. One of the guys I worked with in New Mexico worked with Peace Corps. in Kyrgyzstan for 2 years and had become fluent in that particular area's dialect of Kyrgese and Russian as a result. It's actually to the point where sometimes he will alternate talking between Kyrgese and English on accident, so we'd have to point out that he had switched over.
anonymous wrote:
Calbrena wrote:
Do I have to tell all my foreign students that they are retards as they can't speak perfectly yet even though they've been living in the country for years for some of them? :?

Answer: Absolutely.
Fact: 99% of the general human population is made of retards. At least.
So, statistically speaking, I can safely guess that you're retarded? Unless you aren't human, of course.

To say that someone is retarded because they have an accent or a dialect that deviates from the standard is a grossly ignorant statement. Even if this statement was valid, it's would only be true if the effect was confined to a VERY small subset of individuals, not the general population as a whole, so the statement is automatically invalidated, anyway. You're forgetting a very important fact that is defended in numerous psychological and physiological brain studies, namely the incredible degree of difficulty in changing something such as language that has been learned during the formative years of brain development in a child. This is most obviously manifested in the existence of accents, so while new languages can be learned, executing perfect grammar and pronunciation will take far longer to develop, and sometimes, never will unless it is learned during the first 18 years of life (the time span when the brain still grows and develops).
anynomous
Moon|Alfie Moon|Nana Moon
Moon|Alfie Moon|Nana Moon
Level 25 — 58 posts42 posts to next level
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:35 am

Post by anynomous »

Mitsurugi CP wrote:
anonymous wrote:
Calbrena wrote:
Do I have to tell all my foreign students that they are retards as they can't speak perfectly yet even though they've been living in the country for years for some of them? :?

Answer: Absolutely.
Fact: 99% of the general human population is made of retards. At least.
So, statistically speaking, I can safely guess that you're retarded?
Confirmation: Correct.
Note: Of course anynomous disagrees with you on that opinion, however.
Movie quote: Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.
User avatar
Selma
Dirty Kuffar
Dirty Kuffar
Level 33 — 150 posts50 posts to next level
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 5:44 pm

Post by Selma »

anynomous wrote:Query: Why would language acquiration deteriorate?
Suggestion: Those linguists can go suck it.
Maybe you should learn English yourself before you start throwing rocks. Acquiration isn't a word...

:erm
In ancient Egypt, felines were worshipped because the Egyptians thought they
were funny.
anynomous
Moon|Alfie Moon|Nana Moon
Moon|Alfie Moon|Nana Moon
Level 25 — 58 posts42 posts to next level
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:35 am

Post by anynomous »

Declaration: Anynomous was in a tremendous rush when typing that.
Fact: Human mistakes happen.
Anynomous, as unforgiving as Anonymous.
User avatar
Selma
Dirty Kuffar
Dirty Kuffar
Level 33 — 150 posts50 posts to next level
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 5:44 pm

Post by Selma »

anynomous wrote:Declaration: Anynomous was in a tremendous rush when typing that.
Fact: Human mistakes happen.
Anynomous = human mistake
In ancient Egypt, felines were worshipped because the Egyptians thought they
were funny.
anynomous
Moon|Alfie Moon|Nana Moon
Moon|Alfie Moon|Nana Moon
Level 25 — 58 posts42 posts to next level
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:35 am

Post by anynomous »

Opinion: Incorrect.

Memory: That was the last post anynomous made that day and anynomous had no time at all to spellcheck.
Addendum: It was a hit and run post.
Anynomous, as unforgiving as Anonymous.
Post Reply