2G17: 6 - Work/Life Balance

Vibing_V · Post by **Vibing_V** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:40 pm

I'm going to temporarily stop being lazy and make a topic that's been kicking around and recurring in recent weeks.

As we all grow up and hustle, work life balance comes to the forefront in a lot of planning and decision-making. What does work life balance mean to you? Have you achieved your ideal work life balance? How has your ideal/reality changed over time? What advice do you have for other people looking to achieve a better work life balance?

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:49 pm

I partially manage this balance by not thinking about work while I'm not there

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:53 pm

To me work life balance means I don't work outside normal work hours, work doesn't interfere with my weekends at all and impact on weekdays is limited to within working hours (and of course getting to sleep on time). In that sense, I don't feel I manage a good work life balance, because I tend to work extra on weekends and to some extent later into the evening than I would like.

Calbrena · Post by **Calbrena** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:03 pm

I used to have a shitty work-life balance, not just working 12 hours or so per day, but also only socialising with work-related people. I'm glad it's over.

If there's one thing I've learned in my short career, and somewhat short life, it's that no one will make sure you're ok. You have to set priorities in life, otherwise others will happily exploit you until you burn out or drop dead.

So yeah, take care of yourselves guys, and take care of your loved ones. Life is too short to spend it devoting too much time to work.

Cybernetic Empire · Post by **Cybernetic Empire** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:58 pm

I have this sweet setup where I'm salary, but work 40 hours or less a week, get to leave to pick my kiddo up from school, they don't care if I bring her back to my office, etc. I don't think about work when I'm not there. I've been here for 11 years (+6 as a student worker).

On the other hand, my dumb brain tries to convince me that I'm not satisfied where I'm at in my "career" and that I'm gonna get canned at any moment. Luckily I found this article last month: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/life/he ... 1490280820

RDM · Post by **RDM** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:09 pm

The RDM is very happy with his work/life balance now. 35 hours weeks and lots of vacation days help. Plus the fact that the RDM hasn't had to rush into the office in the middle of the night to sit by the phone and try not to fall asleep so far in this job. Which is an improvement.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:37 pm

What I wouldn't give for 35 hour weeks. I'll tell you what I definitely would give. The proportional 1/8 of my salary. I'd definitely give that up for 35 hours weeks. In fact, even if I ended up working more than 35 hours (I would) just having 10 hours less worth of production every biweek would be worth the salary cut.

RDM · Post by **RDM** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:14 pm

The RDM gave up about 2.5% of his salary for 9 less hours of work a week, 4 extra vacation days, 2 extra holidays, 8 extra sick days, a pension, and the ability to wake up in the morning without immediately thinking about quitting. Seemed like a good trade.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:33 pm

I won't add much, as I don't like talking about work outside of it, but being able to work from home once in a while really does help with the balance. Being able to get up a little later, not have to get dressed to see people, be able to do laundry and odd house chores during breaks and not having to crowd onto a delayed and sweat-filled train.

Sadly, my manager changes his mind on the fly as to whether he likes people working from home. His current stance is that it should only happen if necessary, even though he does it once a week (and regularly at least one other time). His patronising micro managing where he needs to see you and your screen constantly otherwise he can't trust that you're working is a big demotivator and proves he's bad at his job. Really hoping I can get out of this place in the next couple of months

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:44 pm

RDM wrote:The RDM gave up about 2.5% of his salary for 9 less hours of work a week, 4 extra vacation days, 2 extra holidays, 8 extra sick days, a pension, and the ability to wake up in the morning without immediately thinking about quitting. Seemed like a good trade.

You managed all that for only 2.5% cut? Obviously because you switched jobs. No way you could keep the same job and be giving a deal like that.

RDM · Post by **RDM** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:49 pm

Correct. At the time the RDM's now-former coworkers were rather surprised the RDM would leave without securing a raise. The RDM considers it a nonmonetary raise.

Calbrena · Post by **Calbrena** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:03 pm

@RDM, totally. People need to learn about opportunity costs. Oh, and sunk cost fallacies. I think some people stay in a career path just because they've already invested so much time and energy in it, when really the sensible thing to do would be to move on.

Cybernetic Empire wrote:Luckily I found this article last month: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/life/he ... 1490280820

The impostor syndrome is very real, and very common. Probably even more common for people in their thirties (especially working females, but males too).

Speaking of work/life balance and cost of living, I was wondering, what is the "ideal" annual salary where you live? As in, a salary that allows you to live comfortably enough, and plan for the future, and still allows you to have a job not requiring to work crazy weeks? I know it's very different depending on states and countries, so I'm curious. Feel free to break down costs to explain why this amount is required (e.g. rent/mortgage, tuition for kids, health care, etc.). I'm asking that because yesterday some of my clients explained they spent about a million dollar on their kids' education, which is very difficult to understand from a French perspective. So yeah, it makes me wonder about cost of living in general.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:08 pm

The impostor syndrome isn't a syndrome. Most highly successful people are total frauds.

Calbrena · Post by **Calbrena** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:11 pm

Overachievers often feel like complete impostors though, and it's a problem. I've noticed that when managing teams, usually the best ones are the more anxious people, afraid they're not doing enough when in fact they're performing way better than others.

RDM · Post by **RDM** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:30 pm

The RDM finds almost the opposite. Most people are actually pretty bad at their jobs. It's a bit crazy.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:40 pm

I tend to agree more with the RDM.

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:48 pm

I care about this topic a lot yet have not replied yet!

Part of the reason I became disillusioned with academia is that I value work/life balance.

I now work from home (a province away from the office) on a company PC, and I can't get work emails when I'm not on it. Nobody expects me to work overtime--in fact, when we sometimes have an evening meeting (with Asia), my manager repeatedly reminds us to take the hour off from our regular day to make up for it. It's not the world's most interesting job, but I appreciate all of these things immensely and it pays well.

I sometimes can't help but think of work when I'm not there, but I try not to. I've always liked the motto "work to live, don't live to work". I want free time and enough money so that I'm not stressed about money. That's made easier by the fact that we don't want kids or a car and we're happy renting for the foreseeable future. And Montréal is a good place to rent.

Every time I hear about Golbez's work/life imbalance I feel sad and kind of stressed.

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:49 pm

As for impostor syndrome, that's certainly a big thing in academia.

Henchman #2 · Post by **Henchman #2** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:51 pm

Well, this is a very relevant topic to something I've been mulling over the past few months.

So I work as a freelance motion designer, which for simplicity's sake, is animation + graphic design. I've been living off freelance for the past year or so now after working various full-time jobs (in the same field) for about 5 years, then taking a 3 month sabbatical, and coming back to find no jobs that I was either happy with or were willing to hire me. In other words, I wasn't exactly planning to get to get into freelance but made do with the job environment.

I spent all of 2016 working really hard to pay off debts from the sabbatical, and save enough to move to a new apartment. Just a lot of gigs and shift work that, while quite helpful to me, weren't fulfilling or exciting. But I brushed it off to reach some personal goals of mine, which I did make by the end of the year. The problem I'm having now is going from a mindset for a whole year has been work work work and no breaks, to easing up on the pedal this year so I can breathe and enjoy my free time. That, and freelancing tends to be "rain or drought" so I'm always terrified of the prospect of no incoming work to pay for rent and basic living. I'm also driven by prioritizing more work that challenges or excites me, which don't happen often or sometimes pays little, so I end up overloading on jobs while I maintain my ongoing priorities. I've been lucky enough to keep finding work but I dread the future where it all dries up.

That being said, I have been easing up a tiny bit, slowly bringing back games to my diet, eventually TV will return, and I'm looking into going back to the gym after a year+ of inactivity. I'm a self-described workaholic so I'm sure that doesn't help my decision making, but I'm also feeling more burnout than before which has made me reassess how much work I need to do to be content or at least capable of surviving from the payouts.

eightman · Post by **eightman** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:34 am

went from working to build someone else's business with insane amounts of overtime at fairly shit pay (relative to industry) because of initial lack of experience, to opening own place with the wife and still working long hours.

to be fair... i often sleep in and open late when appointments and commitments allow for it. so when i work to 8pm its not so bad when I got in at 11. and the long hours is with my wife so we don't miss each other.

and now when working that extra bit harder its to build our rep and every additional dollar earned is ours.

we want this to grow so we're more than happy to shovel the necessary shit. once the tree is in full bloom and sturdy we'll be more likely to sit back more and pick and choose more.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:46 am

smeared ink wrote:As for impostor syndrome, that's certainly a big thing in academia.

Honestly, I felt impostor syndrome when I was working on my PhD, but I honestly think that's because I wasn't quite up to snuff. So I kind of feel like my point of view works there too.

In this place, I almost feel the opposite. While there are a few people who are really good and knowledgeable and able to do high production, while at the same time doing a good thorough job, I feel like most people who do better production/do it more easily than me do so, because they either don't really know what they're doing or are a little careless/lazy about it. In some cases, it's also just because they work in an easier area.

Calbrena · Post by **Calbrena** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:24 am

Impostor syndrome is real, but I wonder to what extent it's influenced by the "cultural" environment you work in. As said above, it's well documented that women are more affected by it, which is why I noticed it in my own environment (when managing 25-30 people, mostly women, it was hard to miss). It's also more prevalent in people of colour, etc. Obviously, if you work with narcissists, they're unlikely to suffer from it.

Re. freelancing or setting up your own business and finding the right balance, I think the key is proper networking. I've noticed many freelancers aren't very good at teaming up with others, which is a bit of a shame. Networking is the best way to grow your clients base, especially when you can team up with others to take on more ambitious projects. It also makes work less monotonous, tbh, which is why coworking spaces are getting more and more popular.

Henchman #2 · Post by **Henchman #2** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:07 pm

My impostor syndrome usually gets triggered when I look at my skill level compared to people of similar ages, or just people I take inspiration from and don't feel at all similar to them. I'm also pretty muted when it comes to self-praise so I don't find myself appreciating my own work, which doesn't help with those feelings of inadequacy either.

Calbrena · Post by **Calbrena** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:33 am

See, this is why you need to network with your peers. It's a good way to have a more objective idea about your own work, and it's also a great way to keep your skills up to date. Isolation is freelancers worst enemy.

What tools do you use to network with other freelancers, if any?

Henchman #2 · Post by **Henchman #2** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:53 am

Actually I work with other peers and freelancers quite often since I'm called in to work onsite for agencies/offices. And a lot of my previous fulltime work has led to referrals for freelance gigs at their companies again. And I definitely see where I fall on the spectrum of good and bad designers - I'm still of the mind that I'm never at the level I wish I was.

As for network tools, there's mixers/drink nights, and obviously just hanging out with former colleagues or so.

Calbrena · Post by **Calbrena** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:06 am

I don't know how your particular industry works, but I'd suggest trying to also connect with peers who are outside of Toronto (using the Internet, trade shows, training workshops, whatever).

My industry is a bit special, but I learned a lot by working in several locations, with peers from different cultures and backgrounds. I totally felt like an impostor when I had to train people who were twice my age, but looking back I can see it was silly.

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:26 am

Work life balance for me means I can actually live a life outside of work. This is very important to me. My current job I have to work extra just to make ends meet that could be going towards more important crap because the starting pay is so low.

Calbrena · Post by **Calbrena** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:53 am

Where do you live btw? I saw in the other post you're back in your hometown, but I forgot where you're from.

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:20 am

Houston, Texas.

Mitsurugi CP · Post by **Mitsurugi CP** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:15 am

My challenge hasn't been so much the hours I work, but the number of times I've had to move. For the last decade, I've averaged changing states about every 2 years, chasing education and opportunities. I've lived anywhere between New Mexico and Vermont since 2006. When you're in a new location, you spend a lot of non-work time just trying to settle in and getting used to your new city or town.

I think if I had to do a lot of things over again, I would have stayed in one place longer and stuck it out. It's a lot of effort to rebuild your social life or just maintain a small part of what you had somewhere else. Even if you have a good work environment, it'll take a long time to stabilize your personal life.

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:46 pm

Where were you in New Mexico? I visited the thrilling town of Socorro a couple years ago. The drive down there from Albuquerque (of which I only really saw the airport) was nice.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:55 pm

O hi!

RDM · Post by **RDM** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:16 pm

Long time no see.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:23 pm

Hi Mitsurugi!

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:56 pm

Last visit time (prior to this one) Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:27 am

Calbrena · Post by **Calbrena** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:57 pm

Mitsurugi CP wrote:My challenge hasn't been so much the hours I work, but the number of times I've had to move. For the last decade, I've averaged changing states about every 2 years, chasing education and opportunities. I've lived anywhere between New Mexico and Vermont since 2006. When you're in a new location, you spend a lot of non-work time just trying to settle in and getting used to your new city or town.

I think if I had to do a lot of things over again, I would have stayed in one place longer and stuck it out. It's a lot of effort to rebuild your social life or just maintain a small part of what you had somewhere else. Even if you have a good work environment, it'll take a long time to stabilize your personal life.

Heyyy, welcome back!

Mitsurugi CP · Post by **Mitsurugi CP** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:06 am

smeared ink wrote:Where were you in New Mexico? I visited the thrilling town of Socorro a couple years ago. The drive down there from Albuquerque (of which I only really saw the airport) was nice.

I lived in Raton, up close to the CO border, and visited Taos a lot while I was there.

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:11 am

Stick around awhile!

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:36 am

You already rank number 8 on all time winning in LPTPW. Stick around and beat Ward!

Calbrena · Post by **Calbrena** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:47 pm

Lord Golbez wrote:You already rank number 8 on all time winning in LPTPW. Stick around and beat Ward!

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:14 pm

This thread dig is a DIG at Calbrena for her renewed work/life imbalance.

May you settle back into life before too long, Cal.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:14 pm

The key is to poop at work. Then you get to win in LPTPWTP, and win, and you get to get paid while taking a shit.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:45 pm

That only helps a little.

RDM · Post by **RDM** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:50 pm

You have to poop eight or ten times a day.

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:18 pm

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:16 pm

RDM wrote:You have to poop eight or ten times a day.

I can’t help it. I drink coffee then I poop. I need coffee to not fall asleep. Therefore pay me to poop. I’m adding value to the shareholders.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:22 pm

That's some powerful coffee.

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:30 am

Coffee definitely contributes to keeping me regular. I suspect tea would do the job too.

(This will be an important SG 2G50 topic.)

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:32 am

I can say from experience that tea can certainly help. As a vegan, I don't really need help, but it can definitely move things along.

SG2G50 Topic: LAST PERSON TO SHIT WINS!

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:53 pm

The joy that awaits us!