2G17 - 2: Travel plans

[Calbrena]

It's dark and cold outside, so at the moment I'm reflecting on outdoor stuff to do and new places to visit once the weather gets nicer. (By the way, my own new year resolution is to visit as many new places as I can.)

Where would you like to go in 2G17, and why? What places would you recommend to visit, on a cheap budget if possible?

[RDM]

The RDM will probably haul his pile of children down to New York City at some point, and also up to Lake Placid and over to Boston. And his camp constantly because it's going to actually be livable some day.

The cheapest places to go are "the woods" and the cheapest places to stay are "tents." The RDM intends to utilize both.

[Calbrena]

Aren't there bears in the woods though? I'm considering going camping somewhere, however I don't know this country well enough to know where is safe and where isn't.

I've just checked lake placid on Wikipedia, it looks like a nice place. I see people go skiing there, which reminds me I haven't had the chance to ski in like 10 years+. Are there any good places to ski in America?

If you went to NYC with yours kids, what would you do there? Go on a trip to the Lego store and to the Nintendo store, or something a bit more unique?

[RDM]

New York has a crapload of places to ski. You just need to head a ways North and you'll be in the Catskills. Lake Placid is probably more than 5 hours from the city. But it's very nice up there in summer and winter. Spring is muddy.

There are bears about, but really not that many until you get way up into the High Peaks region of the Adirondacks, and even there camping should be plenty safe. The State campgrounds are super cheap and pretty abundant. The RDM can provide recommendations if you'd like.

In NYC we go to museums (the Natural History museum is awesome) and random touristy stuff and eat lots and lots of vegan food. And we go to lots of stores and usually don't buy much.

[Calbrena]

Recommendations for camp grounds would be nice. I had a brief look at the KOA website but that's it.

I went to the Catskills last summer but forgot there were actual places to ski there.

Re. bears, I remember seeing a video of bears in NJ messing around in a paddling pool back in like 2015. I didn't know there were bears in a place like NJ.

Indeed, the natural history museum is awesome. Also, speaking of vegan food, that reminds me I have yet to try that Ethiopian restaurant you mentioned a while back.

[Lord Golbez]

NJ has black bears. No biggie. They're afraid of cats and only weigh a few hundred pounds. I'd like to go to Rome/Vatican in 2G-17. I'd been planning to for some time, but like I said in the last thread used too much vacation time on work.

[Calbrena]

But what if a female black bear thinks you're dangerous for her cubs, wouldn't she attack you?

I've never been to Rome and Vatican, however I've been to Turin, which was pretty awesome. Back when I was little I also went to Pisa, which has superb religious landmarks near the tower. I hope you do get the chance to visit Italy this year, it's a lovely country.

[Lord Golbez]

Black bears aren't like grizzlies. She might, but black bears are more likely to attack looking for food, I think. I mean, people do get killed by black bears but it's pretty rare and rather hard to quantify whether/how often it's people doing something stupid. You obviously shouldn't attempt to pet/feed a black bear, but if it wanders too close and you yell at it, chances are it will run away. Especially in densely populated areas like NJ where they're sure to have fear of people instilled as long as some idiot hasn't been feeding them.

[Damien]

I'm getting married this year, so probably won't be able to afford to go anywhere in 2G17. I'm going to Stockholm for a few days in March (for Melodifestivalen) and will probably do a small week long honeymoon on a Greek island, or somewhere like that.

[Fei Ayanami]

Congratulations Damien! I was unaware.

We're trying to figure out travel plans. Juggling with the idea of France/Germany, or Scotland, or the American southwest. Also possibly in addition, New York City or the east coast of Canada, as we aren't far but haven't been to either. We didn't have a lot of spendin' money the past few years.

I'd still recommend Montréal to anybody. Lived here for over 3 years and I'm not tired of it. I quite like Toronto too. In both places, I wouldn't spend too much time right downtown though.

[Calbrena]

@LG, I'm still not sure I would feel safe camping in areas with bears right next door. I guess it's all about doing my homework beforehand though, checking where is safe and where isn't.

@Damien, yeah, I can imagine the wedding is costing a lot of money. Which Greek island are you considering, any idea yet? I've never been to Greece but I've heard there are tons of nice places to visit there. It's definitely something on my list, not something I'm likely to get the chance to do in the next decade or so though.

@Fei, if you haven't been there yet, I'd recommend Nova Scotia. I really liked it, and it did remind me of Scotland in many ways. Acadia also reminded me of my region in France, but that's more because of people rather than because of landscapes. Now, when you say France/Germany, do you have any specific parts in mind? And when you say American southwest, do you mean Chile or California?

I'd still like to visit Toronto and Montreal, as well as other landmarks such as Niagara Falls, etc. Since we don't have a car though, I'm thinking it might be best to keep these options for later. I don't think hiking all the way to Montreal or Toronto is realistic at this stage, sadly.

For this year, I'd like to see some new places in SoCal when I visit my family there. Apart from that, if/when I get an opportunity to visit my family in Europe, it would be nice to go on a trip with them. Now that my mum is retired, I guess I should recruit her as a tour guide/interpreter and go to Spain with her.

[Damien]

Congratulations Damien! I was unaware.

Cheers. You guys can come to the party if you want. July 15th.

Calbrena. It's Katy that decided on Greece, so I'll leave it down to her. I'm happy with anywhere.

[Fei Ayanami]

We'd love to go to Nova Scotia. But maybe we'll hit up Old Scotia first. We'll see!

By American southwest I mean New Mexico, Utah, Arizona, Nevada, maybe a bit of California. More the desert and small towns than the cities. I have been to New Mexico once for academic purposes (got to visit the Very Large Array!) but I didn't really get to explore.

As for Toronto and Montréal, there are trains and Greyhounds too. I forget how much on average. Not dirt cheap, but not terrible. Train is probably how we'd get to NYC.

[Fei Ayanami]

Oh and France/Germany, we weren't totally decided, but Paris and Berlin at least, with hopefully some short trips out of town in each area.

[Lord Golbez]

I'm getting married this year, so probably won't be able to afford to go anywhere in 2G17. I'm going to Stockholm for a few days in March (for Melodifestivalen) and will probably do a small week long honeymoon on a Greek island, or somewhere like that.

Congratulations!

@LG, I'm still not sure I would feel safe camping in areas with bears right next door. I guess it's all about doing my homework beforehand though, checking where is safe and where isn't.

Fair enough, although I figure most places you can camp have some potential dangerous animals in the area. I would generally be more concerned about animals like cougars than black bears. Also, I'd probably be more worried about rattlesnakes and such.

[Calbrena]

@LG, I guess you're right, I didn't think about those.

@Fei, Arizona and Utah are pretty nice, if you can rent a car there that is. CA as well, especially Death Valley. I'd love to see it after it's been raining there, but I guess I won't get that chance anytime soon.

Let me know if you end up going to France, there are plenty of nice things to see not that far from Paris.

[Cid]

I've always wanted to visit Europe and the UK in particular but $1000+ for the plane ticket alone is brutal.

[Calbrena]

Yeah, that's why I usually see my parents when they come over here to see my brother, it's just cheaper for me to fly to CA than flying to France.

For anyone visiting Europe from another continent, it makes sense to visit several countries in one trip really. At least, if you go to the UK, it's fairly easy to travel to other places too, especially with Eurostar and Thalys trains.

[Lord Golbez]

Yeah, it's more cost effective for sure to see multiple countries, but you've got balance that against how much time you have for vacation, unfortunately.

[Calbrena]

Yeah, I know.
But for example, it's technically possible to do this in like 10-15 days.

London => Paris => Brussels => Amsterdam => Hamburg => Copenhagen

Not saying it would be the best travel plan ever, but it's all doable by train, so no hassle involved to go to airports etc.

A slightly longer travel plan could also be this:
London => Paris => Strasburg => Basel (or elsewhere in Germany or Switzerland) => Vienna => Prague, or traveling towards Italy to see Milano/Turin/Rome/etc.

[RDM]

Congratulashunz, Damien!

As to campgrounds, it depends where ypu want to go. The RDM's favorite is probably Buttermilk Falls in Ithaca. There's another campground right by there (Treman maybe?) with a really cool beach, but Buttermilk has better sites and a great trail that runs along about 11,000,000 little waterfalls. The whole Ithaca area is ridiculously nice for nature purposes.

[Calbrena]

11,000,000 little waterfalls.

That sounds like a lot.
Anyway, I'll keep this place in mind, it does sound lovely.

[Fei Ayanami]

Also depends on whether you really want to get a feel for one city over a more extended time or get a taste of many cities for relatively short times. Both legitimate travel styles, but quite different.

[Calbrena]

Indeed. You could spend 10 days just in London or Paris and not have the time to get bored.

[Lord Golbez]

Indeed. You could spend 10 days just in London or Paris and not have the time to get bored.

Paris is a pretty small city, at least for the major portion where all the famous landmarks are. I'm sure there are things to fill up your time for 10 days and you would know that far better than I from my one time there, but I'd say you can see most of the major sights in far less than 10 days. I mean, I know if I had 10 days in France, I would try to see some other things besides just Paris. I was there for like 6 days back in 2011 and I was there for a conference, not simply on vacation, and I still saw a lot.

However, I would lean more toward this style than the itinerary you put above which, given the travel might include only one full day in each city. Maybe 2 full days in some if you opt for 15 days. I think 3 full days per major city is a good amount or at least 2.5 with entering the city by early afternoon at latest in first day of each. If there's a half day in there you have to arrive at least early enough to see a couple things before they close. Plus, countries have more to offer than just one major city. I think I'd rather go the multiple locations in a couple countries than 6 locations in 6 countries on a single trip.

[Calbrena]

Yeah, I wouldn't fit in that many cities either tbh.

But if I think about it, when I went to Japan it was a "similar" schedule, with Osaka/Kyoto/Nara/Tokyo in like 15 days, including other stops in quieter places (such as somewhere near Atami, I can't think of the exact name right now though). Many of the places I mentioned above use high speed trains, so you could realistically go from one place to another fairly quickly. Like, between Brussels and Amsterdam the train ride takes what, 30mn? That's shorter than the amount of time it takes me to get to midtown Manhattan.

That being said, I agree with you, spending time outside of big cities is interesting too. At the end of the day, I guess it depends what one wants to experience. To be honest, when people ask me about visiting France, I usually advise to spend only a few days in Paris and then move on to real France.

[Lord Golbez]

Seriously? I was thinking at least a few hours between each. If it's that short, it makes sense to hit that many cities, because you could realistically go there and back in the same day (depending on the train schedules).

[Calbrena]

Paris => Brussels is about 1.5h if I remember well. London => Paris is a bit more time consuming considering you have to go through passport control and early check-in, but that's probably like 3h in total. I think the train journey is about 2.5h, or slightly less?

Now, Amsterdam => Hamburg takes longer, probably something like 6 hours or so. That was just an example, but to visit another city closer to the border, there are probably options within 2 hours. I forgot what they're called, but when I was living in Amsterdam I remember trains to Germany were pretty frequent, and they were high speed trains I think.

[Calbrena]

After a quick look on the Thalys website, actually the journey from Amsterdam to Brussels takes longer than that, more like 1h45mn. I guess the first stop in Belgium was somewhere else, maybe Leuven or something. For sure, it wasn't too long after leaving Amsterdam.

That being said, the only time I took the Thalys was before the failed terrorist attack from 2015. It's entirely possible that the journey now takes longer due to extra security checks.

[Damien]

Indeed. You could spend 10 days just in London or Paris and not have the time to get bored.

Personally, I wouldn't advise spending 10 days in either of those. I think 4 days in Paris and maybe 5 in London would be pretty good.

[Calbrena]

Yeah, I wouldn't advise 10 days either, but technically there are enough things to do in both places. However, such a trip would definitely lack variety. 5 days in each is probably better indeed (or fewer than 5 days, fitting in an extra stop in between), and from the perspective of someone coming from another continent it would make sense.

[Damien]

I'd advise not breaking your leg near the start of the trip

[Calbrena]

Have I ever told you that the first time I visited NYC I was on crutches? After a few days I had stigmata in both hands because of all the "walking" involved.

[Cid]

Indeed. You could spend 10 days just in London or Paris and not have the time to get bored.

Personally, I wouldn't advise spending 10 days in either of those. I think 4 days in Paris and maybe 5 in London would be pretty good.

What's wrong with 10 days in London?

[Damien]

Seems a bit too much, especially for somebody who's been there a couple of times before.

[Calbrena]

For someone who's going there for the first time, I still think there would be enough to do for ten days. My main reason for advising against that is that no matter at what time of year you plan to go, the weather in London could turn out to be awful the whole time. If it's super rainy, a lot of touristy things would be ruined.

4-5 days seems like the right time frame to do plenty of interesting things in either Paris or London. For someone who's really into museums and artsy stuff, you could stay longer though, especially in Paris. As in, just to visit the Louvres, it takes 2-3 days.

[Lord Golbez]

I think it's not so much a matter of 10 days being too much, right? I mean I'm sure you could spend a few weeks there and find things to do. People live there and, I assume, don't generally get bored with it that quickly. The issue is one of optimizing your travel experience. After 4-5 days, you're probably getting diminishing returns on staying in the same city for most cities, so might be prudent to spend the rest of your trip in a different city is all.

[Calbrena]

True, that would be the main reason. Hedging your bets rather than keeping all your eggs in the same basket is also common sense when you're spending like $1000+ on plane tickets, hotels, etc.

As for wether there are things to do for more than 10 days for people who live there, I'd say the dynamics are completely different. Someone who lives there will plan their activities based on social interactions mostly, rather than touristy stuff. I visited way more stuff in London and New York before actually living there. Not because I've done everything already, but because touristy stuff hardly fit in a normal daily routine (and a daily budget plan).

[Cid]

The real question is, will my american accent get me hella ladies there?

[Lord Golbez]

I don't think American accents work that way.

[Calbrena]

Accents are certainly a positive/negative thing depending where you travel.

But they don't matter as much as respecting local cultural norms/values. I think people tend to underestimate this.

(Source: lived in like 7/8 different countries over the last 10 years.)

[Fei Ayanami]

I'd advise not breaking your leg near the start of the trip

[Damien]

The real question is, will my american accent get me hella ladies there?

No. Only works the other way round

[Calbrena]

I'd advise not breaking your leg near the start of the trip

Oh yeah, I forgot you did that

[Lord Golbez]

Accents are certainly a positive/negative thing depending where you travel.

But they don't matter as much as respecting local cultural norms/values. I think people tend to underestimate this.

(Source: lived in like 7/8 different countries over the last 10 years.)

That's hard. I don't even respect the local cultural norms/values in my own country!

[Cid]

The real question is, will my american accent get me hella ladies there?

No. Only works the other way round

Damnit. Maybe I can say I'm Canadian.

[Damien]

Most people here wouldn't recognise a difference and think it's the same thing. In London, you hear American accents quite a lot. I'd be impressed if anybody managed to woo with accent alone

[Calbrena]

Accents are certainly a positive/negative thing depending where you travel.

But they don't matter as much as respecting local cultural norms/values. I think people tend to underestimate this.

(Source: lived in like 7/8 different countries over the last 10 years.)

That's hard. I don't even respect the local cultural norms/values in my own country!

You might find it easier in Europe though.

[Cid]

Most people here wouldn't recognise a difference and think it's the same thing. In London, you hear American accents quite a lot. I'd be impressed if anybody managed to woo with accent alone

Interesting. Do you have any general advice for a smelly american visiting the UK, maybe things they usually do that annoy the locals I could avoid? Or cultural difference advice? The only one I'm aware of is not ordering two drinks with the index and middle finger because that's your version of "fuck you."

[Lord Golbez]

Those are pretty much the only two fingers you can easily use to show the number two. Please be more realistic with your taboos! I guess pinky and ring finger isn't too bad, but it's a little harder and more awkward/uncomfortable.