A long time ago I used to know about computers, but then I got old and now I don't really know about them that much. My computer is old and so I need to buy some new pieces of it, but which pieces, and where and what???
Once upon a time Damien and I went to Canada and the person we were staying with had the side of his computer taken off and a big fan pointed at it because he was over clocking the processor. I'd never seen that before, it was kind of a big deal. Now it seems like you can buy processors which are supposed to be overclocked, what>? Does that even make sense to anyone? Why sell a processor as a certain speed if you actually intend it to be overclocked to a different speed? Why not just sell it at the speed it can run?
thanks in advance for your help and support.
Knowing about computers
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Lord Golbez
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Doesn't overclocking void warranties or something? I don't know. I also don't really know what you're asking. It seems like you would need to tell us more about your computer for anyone to suggest what parts to replace? You should probably ask Undine though, which is why I voted Undine in the poll (in my head).
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Fei Ayanami
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Lord Golbez
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Bazz
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Basically I have to upgrade my motherboard because it's too old and obsolete, which means I need to get a new cpu and ram too (at least, maybe more stuff too?). So I started looking into that kind of stuff and found out that intel make cpus which are designed to be overclocked. They put a k on the end of the name to signify that it can be overclocked like "i5 7600k". They cost a bit more than the normal ones (maybe like 20% more), and you need to get a special type of mother board for the overclocking which also costs a bit more and a fancy heat sink to stop it exploding and killing everyone you love. I don't know if it's worth it or not, and how easy it is to do and if if ruins the processor....Lord Golbez wrote:Doesn't overclocking void warranties or something? I don't know. I also don't really know what you're asking. It seems like you would need to tell us more about your computer for anyone to suggest what parts to replace? You should probably ask Undine though, which is why I voted Undine in the poll (in my head).
I'm torn between these two processors:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-Core-i5- ... B01MRRPPQS
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01 ... ON1SGSPLH4
It's around £80 more to go from 3.4Ghz to 3.8Ghz with the better mother board too, which I would think isn't worth it for that small difference. However apparently the more expensive one goes up to 4.5Ghz when overclocked. So I dunno. I don't know how easy it is to overclock it, what problems it might throw up etc.
Those black holes don't sound good either, although it'd be somewhere to put my rubbish I suppose. Or maybe you shouldn't feed them...
So actually I can comment here, I guess, because I just upgraded mine. (though I haven't been paying much attention in prior years)
First off, you need to tell what you want to do with it, and why you care about the motherboard. Personally I only ever care about processor speed and RAM size and then I look for a motherboard "with a bunch of connectors" in case I want to upgrade some day. Sadly (or maybe it was a good thing) I've been using my previous computer since 2008 and never added a single expansion card. Though i did swap out the video card in 2013 or so.
I choose components such that they have a life after no longer being my main computer. So, I look for things that draw low power, because nobody wants to spend a bunch of electricity on a computer acting as the home file server.
To that end, I don't recommend overclocking. The point with overclocking is that manufacturers don't have time to test each individual processor to see how fast it can go for hours at a time without starting to mis-calculate things. So, they make a batch of processors and test a few from that batch, then set their max speed of the whole batch ~15% lower than that and assume they'll all work without problems. In other words, they manufacture a "safe standard reliable" product. When they get lucky and a batch is really well made and can maintain a higher speed, they sell it for a higher price.
The overclocking crowd are the people who desperately want the fastest of fast, and are either a) looking to create a computer faster than can be bought off the shelf, or b) wanting to get a super fast computer without paying the price for a super fast processor. These people are willing to spend lots of time and run a risk of ruining the processor in order to get an extra ~20% out of it. In the old days, the motherboard was in control of the processor and all you needed was a motherboard with an adjustable clock and voltage. Now days the processor is so complicated that it needs to be involved in the effort. Intel is probably upping the price on the "overclockable" ones because they had to go through the hassle of enabling you to do that, and they know you're doing it to avoid paying for their officially faster processor. There's probably also extra cost arguing with the jerks who send it back after burning it out and claim it was broken when they got it.
Anyway, again i still recommend buying computers that have low power draw. I look on Toms Hardware for the best "performance per watt" graphics card in the $125-$200 range, then buy an Intel processor in the lower wattage range (currently 65W) from last years hottest new processor line. (cheaper than new, but still really fast)
These days you can also get a big performance boost from a solid state drive, but the size is way smaller per dollar. I did, because I have a home file server where I dump all the big stuff.
Anyway, my last computer was a Core2 Duo 3.5Ghz with 4GB ram and a Western Digital Black 1TB (spinning) harddrive. Graphics card is a GeForce FX something or other. Lasted me 9 years, playing
a few high-end video games in the early years and low-end games in the later years. It could play Starcraft 2 at moderate settings, but for competitive play I turned all the settings to minimum to make it run faster. My biggest gripe was that Thunderbird email would drag me down sometimes because it wanted 2GB of ram and I only had 4.
My new system is a Core i5 6600 3.3Ghz (Skylake model, last one that can run Windows 7) with 16GB ram and a 256GB solid state disk. It runs starcraft way smoother, but I'm lame these days and haven't tried any other modern games.
I re-used my case, power supply, graphics card, card reader, and DVD drive. I got a micro-ATX motherboard because I want to get a smaller case eventually. Motherboards have so much stuff on them these days that you're unlikely to need add-in cards other than video card and with USB3.1 most add-on devices can just be plugged in, instead of needing a card for it. I expect these components will last me another 7+ years, because the march of progress for processors has been slowing down.
But again, what do you use it for?
First off, you need to tell what you want to do with it, and why you care about the motherboard. Personally I only ever care about processor speed and RAM size and then I look for a motherboard "with a bunch of connectors" in case I want to upgrade some day. Sadly (or maybe it was a good thing) I've been using my previous computer since 2008 and never added a single expansion card. Though i did swap out the video card in 2013 or so.
I choose components such that they have a life after no longer being my main computer. So, I look for things that draw low power, because nobody wants to spend a bunch of electricity on a computer acting as the home file server.
To that end, I don't recommend overclocking. The point with overclocking is that manufacturers don't have time to test each individual processor to see how fast it can go for hours at a time without starting to mis-calculate things. So, they make a batch of processors and test a few from that batch, then set their max speed of the whole batch ~15% lower than that and assume they'll all work without problems. In other words, they manufacture a "safe standard reliable" product. When they get lucky and a batch is really well made and can maintain a higher speed, they sell it for a higher price.
The overclocking crowd are the people who desperately want the fastest of fast, and are either a) looking to create a computer faster than can be bought off the shelf, or b) wanting to get a super fast computer without paying the price for a super fast processor. These people are willing to spend lots of time and run a risk of ruining the processor in order to get an extra ~20% out of it. In the old days, the motherboard was in control of the processor and all you needed was a motherboard with an adjustable clock and voltage. Now days the processor is so complicated that it needs to be involved in the effort. Intel is probably upping the price on the "overclockable" ones because they had to go through the hassle of enabling you to do that, and they know you're doing it to avoid paying for their officially faster processor. There's probably also extra cost arguing with the jerks who send it back after burning it out and claim it was broken when they got it.
Anyway, again i still recommend buying computers that have low power draw. I look on Toms Hardware for the best "performance per watt" graphics card in the $125-$200 range, then buy an Intel processor in the lower wattage range (currently 65W) from last years hottest new processor line. (cheaper than new, but still really fast)
These days you can also get a big performance boost from a solid state drive, but the size is way smaller per dollar. I did, because I have a home file server where I dump all the big stuff.
Anyway, my last computer was a Core2 Duo 3.5Ghz with 4GB ram and a Western Digital Black 1TB (spinning) harddrive. Graphics card is a GeForce FX something or other. Lasted me 9 years, playing
a few high-end video games in the early years and low-end games in the later years. It could play Starcraft 2 at moderate settings, but for competitive play I turned all the settings to minimum to make it run faster. My biggest gripe was that Thunderbird email would drag me down sometimes because it wanted 2GB of ram and I only had 4.
My new system is a Core i5 6600 3.3Ghz (Skylake model, last one that can run Windows 7) with 16GB ram and a 256GB solid state disk. It runs starcraft way smoother, but I'm lame these days and haven't tried any other modern games.
I re-used my case, power supply, graphics card, card reader, and DVD drive. I got a micro-ATX motherboard because I want to get a smaller case eventually. Motherboards have so much stuff on them these days that you're unlikely to need add-in cards other than video card and with USB3.1 most add-on devices can just be plugged in, instead of needing a card for it. I expect these components will last me another 7+ years, because the march of progress for processors has been slowing down.
But again, what do you use it for?
Ok, I stopped being lazy and looked it up. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gef ... 50-22.htmlgintanto wrote:Graphics card is a GeForce FX something or other
So I probably bought it fall of 2014, not 2013. As you can see on
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu ... ,4388.html
It's only 8 ranks from the top, even being 3 years old. Of course that's also right on the edge of "not being sold anymore". If you want to play a newer game you might need something farther up. But as you can also see on that link, it looks like prices are up quite a bit these days. I think I paid less that $140 for mine, and the price is *still* that high for my card.
Chart for CPUs:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu ... ,4312.html
On that note, I think the prices I paid for processor and memory were also kinda high. This might not be the best of times to upgrade...
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Bazz
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Cheers for the input gintanto! I want something that'll last too, my current PC is about 9 years old (with newer parts added over time) and still works ok for what I use it for most of the time (just ms office stuff), but it wouldn't stand a hope of running any new games.
In terms of what I want to use it for, it's mostly going to be doing work still, but I want to be able to buy and play new games on it too. Not competitively or anything but to enjoy the experience. I also want to be able to upgrade it in future.
https://i1.wp.com/pokde.net/assets/uplo ... .jpg?ssl=1
I was thinking that I'd just use it without overclocking it for a while and then if I get to a point in the future where it's not fast enough I can overclock it a little bit and keep doing that until up to a certain limit which would extend the time that it can keep up with newer CPUs. I'd then be able to buy an unlockable i7 processors (which wouldn't be new any more and so would be cheaper) and the motherboard could overclock them too.
I hadn't really thought about the power demands, I should probably check that my power supply can provide the juice. That might end up being what stops me tbh, if I was just the processor I think I've decided to go for it, but the extra cost of the motherboard, a better cooling system and maybe a power supply might not be worth it. I'll have a look at solid state drives too, I don't have one at the moment.
In terms of what I want to use it for, it's mostly going to be doing work still, but I want to be able to buy and play new games on it too. Not competitively or anything but to enjoy the experience. I also want to be able to upgrade it in future.
I normally wouldn't care about the motherboard that much, but to overclock the new processors you need a motherboard with a certain chip set, they have to say either Z170 or Z270, with the 270 being better. Apparently you can manually overclock the CPU with other motherboards too, but you'd be overclocking everything else in the PC at the same time and some of the bits don't like being overclocked. That's my understanding of it anyway having only learnt about this recently. Those motherboards, being designed for overclocking, also have a user friendly looking interface for the overclocking.gintanto wrote:why you care about the motherboard
https://i1.wp.com/pokde.net/assets/uplo ... .jpg?ssl=1
I was thinking that I'd just use it without overclocking it for a while and then if I get to a point in the future where it's not fast enough I can overclock it a little bit and keep doing that until up to a certain limit which would extend the time that it can keep up with newer CPUs. I'd then be able to buy an unlockable i7 processors (which wouldn't be new any more and so would be cheaper) and the motherboard could overclock them too.
I hadn't really thought about the power demands, I should probably check that my power supply can provide the juice. That might end up being what stops me tbh, if I was just the processor I think I've decided to go for it, but the extra cost of the motherboard, a better cooling system and maybe a power supply might not be worth it. I'll have a look at solid state drives too, I don't have one at the moment.
Well that's an interesting strategy. Yeah, starting at normal speed and overclocking in later years makes sense. Not so sure about the cost effectiveness of swapping processors later on... but I haven't tried this before.
Anyway, for motherboards, look for the "M2" connector if you want a solid state drive, and USB 3.1. The one I just bought doesn't support overclocking, but I can recommend Newegg.com's searching features for finding what you need.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductL ... IsNodeId=1
just looking at the options on the side will let you know what important details there are to learn about. Also there's usually a lot of power user question/answer/reviews to learn from.
Not sure if they do international shipping very well, but you can still use them to search out what you want, then look up the model number for the best local price.
Anyway, for motherboards, look for the "M2" connector if you want a solid state drive, and USB 3.1. The one I just bought doesn't support overclocking, but I can recommend Newegg.com's searching features for finding what you need.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductL ... IsNodeId=1
just looking at the options on the side will let you know what important details there are to learn about. Also there's usually a lot of power user question/answer/reviews to learn from.
Not sure if they do international shipping very well, but you can still use them to search out what you want, then look up the model number for the best local price.
Give me your budget and I can put together a part list for you. You can list parts you would like to salvage from your old rig as well if you want but if it's 9 years old I would honestly recommend you just start from scratch. Also, what "work" do you do on your computer? Is it any sort of rendering?
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Bazz
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Cheers for all the advice. I bought a bunch of stuff last night. This is it so far:
ASUS LGA 1151 PRIME Z270-K Intel ATX Motherboar
Intel Core i5-7600K 3.8 GHz QuadCore 6 MB Cache CPU
Corsair CMK8GX4M2A2666C16 Vengeance LPX 8GB (2x4GB) DDR4 2666Mhz CL16 XMP 2.0 High Performance Desktop Memory Kit
Cooler Master Hyper 212X Air CPU Cooler "RR-212X-17PK-R1, 4 x Heatpipes, 1x 120mm PWM Fan, Intel / AMD"
I've pretty much used up my budget, which was stupid because I didn't get a graphics card... It's my birthday in a couple of weeks though so I'll suggest that as something my misses can get me. For the time being I'll have to use my old one which is a "2048MB ATI AMD Radeon HD 6670", which is going to be a bit outclassed by everything around it.
Anyway, the fun of trying to get it all stuck together and working will happen tomorrow when amazon are supposed to deliver all the pieces. I'll let you know how that goes, possibly from my phone
ASUS LGA 1151 PRIME Z270-K Intel ATX Motherboar
Intel Core i5-7600K 3.8 GHz QuadCore 6 MB Cache CPU
Corsair CMK8GX4M2A2666C16 Vengeance LPX 8GB (2x4GB) DDR4 2666Mhz CL16 XMP 2.0 High Performance Desktop Memory Kit
Cooler Master Hyper 212X Air CPU Cooler "RR-212X-17PK-R1, 4 x Heatpipes, 1x 120mm PWM Fan, Intel / AMD"
I've pretty much used up my budget, which was stupid because I didn't get a graphics card... It's my birthday in a couple of weeks though so I'll suggest that as something my misses can get me. For the time being I'll have to use my old one which is a "2048MB ATI AMD Radeon HD 6670", which is going to be a bit outclassed by everything around it.
Anyway, the fun of trying to get it all stuck together and working will happen tomorrow when amazon are supposed to deliver all the pieces. I'll let you know how that goes, possibly from my phone