Topic 005: Should subjective sports be in the Olympics?

[Reiji]

Anybody who was following the 2004 Olympics knows who Paul Hamm is, and the controversy behind his gold medal.

Additionally, anybody who watched the 2002 Olympics knows about the figure skating scandal involving a French judge, Russians, and an international conspiracy, all of which resulted in a Canadian pair being awarded a second gold medal.

According to a Sports Illustrated columnist, "...no athletic event that is judged belongs in the Olympics." because they lack an "...objective, inarguable method for determining victory and defeat."

Do sports that determine their results by judging belong in the Olympics?

Furthermore, gymnastics and figure skating are some of the highest-profile sports in their respective Olympics. Would the Olympics survive without these sports that draw large audiences?

[Lord Golbez]

That's odd. I always considered the judged sports to be the meat and potatoes of the Olympics. Mind you, I don't really WATCH the Olympics, unless someone else has turned the television on to watch it and I'm there and don't really feel like going somewhere else. So it's probably highly flawed, but that's the impression I got. A lot of the more objective sports feel out of place to me(not all of them, but the team oriented ones definitely feel out of place).

Honestly, I can't say it matters too much to me, but it would seem strange to me for the subjective events to be removed, so for the sake of tradition, I vote nay to Sports Illustrated and yea to judged Olympic events.

[Garbo]

No, it is absolutely impossible to remove these sports from the Olympics. People simply wouldn't have it. The only thing they can do is keep either a more strict watch on the judges before and after Olympics, or make their process of hiring judges a lot stricter.

Anyhow, what exactly happened with Paul Hamm? I know he won the men's individual Artistic Gymnastics portion, but I wasn't aware there was controversy surrounding his gold medal.

[j0hn Ayanami]

I absolutely hate judged Olympic events. There is always some kind of controversy every single year in one event or the other. It is really a shame that there is no other way to really score these events either, and they are so deeply entrenched in Olympic history and lore that it would be absolutely impossible to remove them from the games.

That doesn't change the fact that they are still being judged by humans with a country bias somewhere in their minds.

Anyhow, what exactly happened with Paul Hamm? I know he won the men's individual Artistic Gymnastics portion, but I wasn't aware there was controversy surrounding his gold medal.

He's the best example of an American asshole. Basically, the judges made a mistake in the scoring of a South Korean's routine, saying if they would have scored him correctly (it was something about the starting value, the Korean's was a bit lower and it would have affectedhis score) he would have won the overall gold instead of bronze.

Hamm's justification for not giving the medal to him was HE took it upon himself to judge the Korean's routine and said he had an "extra hold" that the judges did not deduct for, thus it would have lowered his score and Hamm's reasoning for keeping the medal.

[Garbo]

That's pretty confusing, but he does indeed sound like a prick!

[Doom]

Yes, and of course, his coaches were behind him all the way, no doubt thinking this to be some international conspiracy to deprive the United States of all of its unbridled and saturated glory that it deserves!

[WaWard]

It's all about jealousy Doom, you know that very well.

I think they have a place in the Olympics, because they still remain a non-professional sport. However, the judging system is flawed, and thankfully they are starting to acknoweledge it a bit.

[Craddyshack]

There is some parade for him in the next town over from where I live, celebrating Paul Hamm's victory. Sometimes I just want to punch people in the face.

[Arashi]

It seems like Olympics is just full of drama these days... But I don't think those sports needs to be removed, they just need a better judging system and stop getting all those biased judges out there.

If those sports were to be removed, I don't think the public would like it so well because those specific scores are pretty much what makes the Olympics.

[Vibing_V]

Sure there's problems with "judged" sports, but I also heard of big troubles with non-judged sports this past summer as well (a runner being harrassed by someone on the track wtf?!), so I hardly think that a few bumps in the road are reason to cut them out.

The more artsy sports help to make the Olympics a well-rounded group of events with something appealing to everyone. I think it should be kept that way.

[Last One]

It would be a pitty if they took those events out of the Olympics, since they represent a more artistic nature of human competition and show how gracefulnes human can be.

And there is always the marathon scandal that seem to not to bother anyone (where the brazilian was going first place, then he gets tackle by that irish/scotish guy). Which to me seems pretty awful.

Have a nice day

[Garbo]

Sure there's problems with "judged" sports, but I also heard of big troubles with non-judged sports this past summer as well (a runner being harrassed by someone on the track wtf?!), so I hardly think that a few bumps in the road are reason to cut them out.

Or that discus thrower who had a piss filled thing full of someone else's piss positioned next to his penis, so when he went to take the drug test, he pushed a button and someone else's pee came out :D

He got busted, but always good for a laugh :}

[Lavos Spawn]

But a lot of sports are subjective, even ones with more strictly defined standards. Referees make judgement calls too, and people don't always agree with them, but they have to interpert based on what they see the same as juges do. if we eliminte all "subjective" sports we are left only with sports that measure time, distance, or some other number that can be measured without any uncertainty, like weightlifting or shotput. That would cut otu a huge number of competitions and make it a contest of pure strength or speed, not skill.

[TheStrife]

I would have taken the gold in olympic TRAMPOLINE jumping.

[Angela]

I don't think that judged sports in general ought to be ousted. Figure skating and gymnastics are good examples of why... the olympics just wouldn't be the same.
However I do think that, say, the "dance" category of figure skating could stand to not be an olympic sport O_o
Not to mention I think synchronized swimming is an absolutely ridiculous sport to have in the olympics... its like... underwater cheerleading (And we all know cheerleading is a sport right? )
I think theres a lot of sports that could stand to not be in the olympics but not contained to merely the subjective ones.

[Arashi]

Not to mention I think synchronized swimming is an absolutely ridiculous sport to have in the olympics... its like... underwater cheerleading (And we all know cheerleading is a sport right? )

Haha I'm totally with you on that one. When I saw it on TV, I was like "what the shit is this" and sure, there are certain rules and limits that must be taken in order to get a good score but it's still weird.

[Kage]

I actually like synchronized swimming. IMHO, until one really experience the sport itself, it is very easy to dismiss such a nice sport. It takes a lot of timing, endurance to perform those seemingly simple movements.

footnote: How can anybody not like looking at beautiful bods.

[Mitsurugi CP]

I think a lot of Olympic sports that are judged more subjectively could be judged more objectively if the IOC would create more rules and regulations for measurements in these events. (perhaps having a larger points scale, instead of 10, maybe 100 or 500, because there are so many little things that contribute to a score in many events)

Then again, a little controversy is what makes the Olympics worth watching.

[Lord Golbez]

What's the difference between 10 and 100? Just add another decimal place.

[nomaru]

wow. i never even thought about it this way.

great topic. meat and potatoes of the olympics, yes. it sucks that human error has to make events suffer with controversy. while the objective olympic events are a definite win/lose situation based on a definite win/lose situation, the subjective allows style with more individual flair and such. such a characteristic of olympics. its so sad that its come to that. they really do need to make their policies for hiring judges more strict.

[Schadenfreude]

I think a lot of Olympic sports that are judged more subjectively could be judged more objectively if the IOC would create more rules and regulations for measurements in these events. (perhaps having a larger points scale, instead of 10, maybe 100 or 500, because there are so many little things that contribute to a score in many events)

Then again, a little controversy is what makes the Olympics worth watching.

They already go to like 3 decimal places. (ie. 4.956)

But apparently this does not seem to be enough. So maybe they do need to restructure the scoring, though as to how would be difficult. Perhaps they need to have more decimal places since almost everyone who doesnt have a massive mistake gets so close to each other that its almost impossible to differeniate. They should eliminate all scores before 9 or something like that or add more decimals only for 9.
ie. 9.465461321465132165132465132

[Garbo]

Whatever happened to Topic of the Day?