Somehow managed to kill my cynicism about games

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:39 pm

I've somehow managed to learn to love them again and it feels great. I've even changed my tune on FFVIIr. I'm not sure if it was due to depression or what - which I've worked on this year - but I'm far less cynical and critical. Being able to enjoy an old hobby again is like seeing with fresh eyes. I've gotten a Switch and been having a blast with it. Been playing so many games like back in the day and just catching up on games I've missed.

God I missed games so much.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:49 pm

Congrats!

Any games you’d previously snubbed that you’re gonna now give a chance?

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:14 pm

I tried DQXI demo on Switch and I still don’t like it but I really like that others are enjoying Dragon Quest so it’s win win. I have to accept it’s the first dragon quest I just won’t like. I’ll buy it on Switch to see it to the end.

I thought Mario Odyssey look babified in the pre release footage and I ended up loving everything in the full game. Glad to be wrong!

eightman · Post by **eightman** » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:33 pm

i kind of cycle out on games too. now and then i get to the "ehh. i recognize this mechanic and these story tropes and i don't see that this will offer me anything new" and I won't bother for a while. cycle on to another hobby and may pump out doodles more for a couple months. then get back to it when something piques my interest again.

the switch is fun though. liking the party games on it too and it makes for a good group activity.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:38 pm

Cool, welcome to team Easy Mode for Sekiro!

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:06 am

WaWard wrote:Cool, welcome to team Easy Mode for Sekiro!

Still a no from me!

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:46 am

Have you actually downed all numbered Dragon Quests and enjoyed them all?

I find it odd that 11 would be so offputting.

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:31 pm

Asaroth Larot wrote:Have you actually downed all numbered Dragon Quests and enjoyed them all?

I find it odd that 11 would be so offputting.

Yes I have played and loved 1-9. X is an mmo.

DQ fans aren’t like FF fans. We tend to like every game in the franchise.

And yes it’s very off putting. It goes against why I like DQ to begin with.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:06 pm

I think DQX was only in Japan anyway and, as far as I know, doesn't even exist as a game you can play anymore.

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:03 pm

It being Japanese exclusive isn’t really and obstacle and hasn’t stopped me in the past. I love DQ so much I taught myself Japanese to play DQVII 3ds. At the time it was thought we probably wouldn’t get another DQ game in English ever again. So I taught myself the language. I managed to play it in Japanese before it came out in English. It took 3 years to come out in English. So it being japan exclusive isn’t a deterrent. My main issue is that it’s an mmo.

I also like DQ so much I held a contest on another site to give away a copy of DQVII 3ds for free.

Summary: I fucking love Dragon Quest.

XI is the first game in the series I don’t like.

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:07 pm

Shouldnt have made a numbered Dragon Quest an MMO any more than making a numbered FF a MMO

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:09 pm

I agree but it is what it is.

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:11 pm

I hope someday to start knocking down the Dragon Quest titles.

Right now the only one Ive beat is 8.

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:15 pm

I-VI and VIII are all on mobile. VII and VIII have great remakes on 3ds. The mobile controls are easy and comfy. III-V are classics. It’s hard for me to pick a favorite DQ. DQIV, V, VII, and VIII regularly fight that slot.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:11 am

HKK wrote:It being Japanese exclusive isn’t really and obstacle and hasn’t stopped me in the past. I love DQ so much I taught myself Japanese to play DQVII 3ds. At the time it was thought we probably wouldn’t get another DQ game in English ever again. So I taught myself the language. I managed to play it in Japanese before it came out in English. It took 3 years to come out in English. So it being japan exclusive isn’t a deterrent. My main issue is that it’s an mmo.

I also like DQ so much I held a contest on another site to give away a copy of DQVII 3ds for free.

Summary: I fucking love Dragon Quest.

XI is the first game in the series I don’t like.

Do you live in Japan? I figured as an MMO it was probably region restricted regardless of import.

Cid · Post by **Cid** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:14 am

HKK wrote:I've gotten a Switch and been having a blast with it.

If they release a Switch Pro or whatever I might pick one up as well. I've never been a Smash fan but the roster of the new one has me intrigued. I wish it had more to offer outside of first party titles though.

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:52 am

People can play it outside japan.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:46 pm

Okay. But I don't know why anyone would want to.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:32 pm

Idk why anyone would want to play an mmo tbh

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:55 pm

I downloaded the DQX client on my Japanese 3DS but never played it.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:19 am

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/09/ ... easy-mode/

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:58 pm

To me the most important thing, which fortunately most games these days seem to have, is the ability to switch difficulty during play. I never know whether the difficulty is set such that normal is frustratingly difficult or easy is too easy ahead of time, so it's really important to be able to chane the decision after gameplay. From the description of Death Stranding in thr article it kind of sounds like normal is going to be a bit on the hard side, but I definitely don't want to super easy mode. Hopefully they have a regular easy mode in between

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:22 pm

WaWard wrote:https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/09/ ... easy-mode/

Heavy disagree.

Cid · Post by **Cid** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:28 pm

Kojima games are already trying so hard to be movies a very easy mode makes perfect sense for people who want to treat the experience like one.

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:55 pm

Well if it's interactive movie game like a telltale game then I say its fine enough but blanket statement all games fuck no

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:00 pm

More options: not a bad thing!

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:11 pm

Nah because forcing those options sometimes ruins creator's intent.

Puzzle games are the most obvious example. Start taking apart what the puzzle you need to solve actually is and its basically not the puzzle anymore.

Now you may think of how Silent Hill had different puzzle difficulty levels. That's fine in theory until you as the creator are told that every puzzle you make has to fit into a creative box of something that can be interchangeable.

This is especially problematic when part of the narrative is wrapped into the puzzle.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:18 pm

No it doesn’t.

Oh my god this puzzle can be easier! The horror!

eightman · Post by **eightman** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:23 pm

Asaroth Larot wrote:Nah because forcing those options sometimes ruins creator's intent.

Puzzle games are the most obvious example. Start taking apart what the puzzle you need to solve actually is and its basically not the puzzle anymore.

Now you may think of how Silent Hill had different puzzle difficulty levels. That's fine in theory until you as the creator are told that every puzzle you make has to fit into a creative box of something that can be interchangeable.

This is especially problematic when part of the narrative is wrapped into the puzzle.

Ehh.. back in the day we had game genies. And today for the ultra lazy they can just look up playthrough vids for a lot of games.

When games have an option for easy mode I usually don't pick it because I want the challenge of interesting mechanics to keep me engaged.

I'm not typically concerned with others having a option to choose something that I'm not going to pick anyhow. It's like getting disagreeable with a restaurant because they have options on their menu that you don't like... just don't pick it.

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:35 pm

You're looking at it as the player's side only.

Im arguing for the creator's side.

Looking up FAQs to bail you out or watching Let's Plays are fine because that's not the creator being forced on his end.

Forcing the game creator to put in an easy mode is akin to telling a movie director to go out of the way on his end to give you a Dipshit's cut where there is absolutely no nuance or subtext.

If someone else wants to spell out the finer details plainly that's fine. But it shouldnt be on the creator.

Telling an artist to do it your way is akin to me throwing a bitchfit you didnt go out out of your way to make censored more palatable versions of your surreal art. If I did that you would probably be inclined to tell me to go fuck myself.

That's all my argument is and needs to be.

eightman · Post by **eightman** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:52 pm

Asaroth Larot wrote:You're looking at it as the player's side only.

Im arguing for the creator's side.

Looking up FAQs to bail you out or watching Let's Plays are fine because that's not the creator being forced on his end.

Forcing the game creator to put in an easy mode is akin to telling a movie director to go out of the way on his end to give you a Dipshit's cut where there is absolutely no nuance or subtext.

If someone else wants to spell out the finer details plainly that's fine. But it shouldnt be on the creator.

Telling an artist to do it your way is akin to me throwing a bitchfit you didnt go out out of your way to make censored more palatable versions of your surreal art. If I did that you would probably be inclined to tell me to go fuck myself.

That's all my argument is and needs to be.

Not talking about forcing a chef to put a grilled cheese sandwich on the menu for kids. I'm talking about business compromises and what my own expectations are for how the world works.

I'm acknowledging demand for features on what is ultimately a product being sold. Creator/Artist wants to work with publishers who give them the money to realize their vision at the scale they want. Creator does this to get paid AND to share the vision. Money guys do it for money.

Creator wants the money, they compromise as much or as little as they want to in order to get the money needed to push their vision as best as possible.

Ideally the artist has unlimited funds and man power to do whatever they want however they want without compromise. But they don't. They want something from the world they owe something to the world.

As for me. I make because I feel like it. I don't need money from anyone to make what I make. So if someone wants me to do it a certain way I can say fuck off because I don't owe them anything and I don't expect anything.

You can love your artists and their visions. But ultimately if you're selling then to some extent you're selling out.

Cid · Post by **Cid** » Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:47 pm

Asaroth Larot wrote:Well if it's interactive movie game like a telltale game then I say its fine enough but blanket statement all games fuck no

Oh yeah I definitely agree there. I don't think it's as simple as all games should have easy modes or all games should not have easy modes. It just depends on the game. Personally I don't see the point in playing video games if you're removing the game part, but I can at least see where someone is coming from on an easy mode for a Kojima game, and to each their own.

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:41 am

I dont have a problem with most of what eightman said but the idea that a creator even if he sells his work actually owes his fanbase anything more than the promised product itself doesnt sit well with me.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:14 pm

pretty sure unless you’re an indie game which you make yourself that the PURE INTENT of the creator is comprised anyway. And even then.

The argument twaddle, and not based in reality of how things are made.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:42 pm

All cinematic/narrative driven games should have easy modes. Games like Tetris, Pacman, etc. don't really need easy modes for obvious reasons.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:48 pm

Lord Golbez wrote:All cinematic/narrative driven games should have easy modes. Games like Tetris, Pacman, etc. don't really need easy modes for obvious reasons.

I mean technically they do have them. It just happens to be the early levels because they’re repetitious. Or if you’re looking at progress they let you start with more blocks and the higher speed. And plenty of classics have had since had “zen modes” or other things that makes the game easier.

How unacceptable!

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:21 pm

Having a difficulty curve isn't really the same thing as having an easy mode, but whatever. Even most really difficult games have a difficulty curve. Sekiro probably does too. I don't have problems with those games having easy modes, I just think it's pretty unnecessary because they're endless games where the challenge basically is the game. Having an easy mode essentially just slides the scale on what achievements/scores are considered "good."

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:29 pm

I just find that it’s unacceptable that you can start Tetris at level 10 and a handicapped. To get there, you should pay with your gamer blood and sweat and git good. Having this option in the game is an affront to the time I have invested laying bricks over the years!

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:07 am

I couldve sworn if you start at Level 10 youre stuck there until you achieve the same score youd normally need to get to 11

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:51 am

Easy modes are fine and have been a part of gaming for nearly 30 years.

Thinking every game needs an easy mode however is foolish and beyond entitled.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:37 am

Oh please. I'm not going to make this personal about you HKK because I could easily do it as well.

On one end, there are people here that think that making games more accessible cannot be done without compromises it the purity of the design (purity of designs being a complete fallacy). That said I do not think it’s an unfair point because I do think creator intent needs to be respected as much as possible.

However, I make products for a living with designers and the reality is that they are a series of compromises, and I believe that one of those compromises should be accessibility. And guess what? We manage to hit the design's intent and make products usable and more accessible.

I'm being aspirational, and I think designers should be aspirational about this as well, and when they aren’t it’s to the detriment of their users. This is not entitlement, nor foolishness.

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:31 pm

It’s not personal though. I’m arguing this subject here and elsewhere. ArsTechnica wrote the other day every game should have some super easy mode from Kojima’s new game.

Cid · Post by **Cid** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:51 am

WaWard wrote:However, I make products for a living with designers and the reality is that they are a series of compromises, and I believe that one of those compromises should be accessibility. And guess what? We manage to hit the design's intent and make products usable and more accessible.

What is your definition of accessibility in video games? What do you think makes a game accessible?

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:02 pm

Elevators

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:06 pm

Why are you asking a question and having an

Accessibility means that games have outreach to more players. No gatekeeping. That is all.

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:41 pm

Time to WEIGH IN

I don’t care when hard games don’t have an easy mode. As a player, I don’t think games have to be made optionally easy/accessible, though I understand if a game company thinks the games they publish do. I also don’t care when hard games do have an easy mode. I don’t think “purity of the vision” is a valid concern and it does just feel like gatekeeping to complain about it. It’s like complaining that the Eiffel Tower has elevators and not just stairs. It’s hard not to feel that you just think the bragging rights of having been to the top are diminished because more people can get there. And yet you’re still welcome to take the stairs.*

*For the sake of this analogy, pretend you’re still welcome to take stairs to the top of the Eiffel Tower, which I don’t actually think you usually are, rofl

Cid · Post by **Cid** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:10 pm

WaWard wrote:Why are you asking a question and having an

Accessibility means that games have outreach to more players. No gatekeeping. That is all.

Because it was carried over from the post I was quoting.

Could you be more specific?

eightman · Post by **eightman** » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:07 pm

Should a person be stopped from being able to play through a game because they have one hand if there is a way to make that game accessible to them?

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:18 am

Just to be clear I wasnt saying No easy modes ever. I was saying No easy modes always.

There will always be ableism to some extent.

I think eightman's example is pretty telling. Can you imagine if it was mandated that every game had to have a new UI built into it to accomodate 1 handed people? Basically sounds like dictating every game have a motion control option.

Trying to please everyone can absolutely cause compromises and ruin a product.

eightman · Post by **eightman** » Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:56 am

Hey man if the one handed market is big money then they'll probably make it an option.

I prefer invert look. Some people don't. If a game doesn't have an inversion option I probably won't play it therefore chances of profit are reduced.

If it doesnt have an easy mode then people who prefer that may not buy it and therefore chances of profit are reduced.

Like Ward said, options aren't the devil. No one mandates easy modes because there's no monopolistic gaming dictator.

I think your knee jerk reaction to the whole thing may be tied to gamer as an identity. You may consider yourself a gamer. You may consider playing through a game with some difficulty to be a challenge and getting the sweet award of completion to be a nice feeling of accomplishment. These positive feelings could be threatened when the "art" you're appreciating is debased to allow for wider access to anyone else to be a member of your club and your identity while putting in much less effort. There are obvious distinctions with the effort put in but you may resent them being given the same reward.

CE does MMA. If an 8 year old gets his yellow belt and claims the same identity that CE claims then he probably won't get pissed that the kid didn't suffer as much for it as he did.

In short, chill out on others having training wheels. If they want to put them on their harley and call themselves a biker who cares? Power to people getting their kicks when its not hurting anyone else.

Square Gamer

Somehow managed to kill my cynicism about games

Somehow managed to kill my cynicism about games

Re: Somehow managed to kill my cynicism about games