2G18 - 28: Universal basic income

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:36 am

Hey now!

Basic income has been a hot item of discussion and even testing in recent years. Basic idea: everybody gets a baseline level of income no matter what.

Do you like/support this idea? What do you like/dislike about it? Whether you support it or not, what are some potential problems or complications you think could arise from it?

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:32 am

Full communism IMO. Nationalise Amazon.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:26 am

We need to gather data on it to see how effective it is.

Automation and machine learning will make multiple jobs obsolete and I think something like this will only become more necessary in the future.

I’m pissed off Fordnation cancelled the trial.

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:29 pm

I totally agree we need some form of communism or basic income or something because as we lose more and more jobs to automation the earnings either all get funneled up to a few people (our current trajectory yay) or we find a way to redistribute them.

I think a possible concern is that without some very careful planning and regulating, it would largely just shift the goal posts. Companies would justify lower wages: “you’ve got your basic income, don’t you?” Similarly, landlords might raise rents, etc. Sure, being homeless with a small cashflow might still be better than being homeless with no cashflow... my concern is that just as many people could still be homeless. A basic income with no corresponding changes in society sounds great, but there would surely be a gradual adjustment of everything.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:28 pm

I want it and it's mine. Give me UBI or I will take it from Bezos.

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:08 pm

But he has to build a clock in a mountain or something!

Mitsurugi CP · Post by **Mitsurugi CP** » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:37 pm

Echoing what ward said, UBI is going to be a necessity if we continue down the path we're on collectively.

Unless the ultra rich are secretly trying to save the world by triggering a mass casualty event to deal with overpopulation, in which case, I'm glad the time until robots take my job is a bit further out than many. (but my job isn't safe, either)

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:03 pm

"Save the world." Ha! Except if they were really trying to do that they should go first as they're collectively responsible for the equivalent environmental damage of a much larger number of poor people (if not more than all poor people).

Calbrena · Post by **Calbrena** » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:07 pm

I'm French, so of course I find this idea interesting:
https://www.capital.fr/economie-politiq ... ce-1291752

Now let's see how it goes. If it means having a more efficient system than what currently exists, great, otherwise the concept will need a bit more tweaking.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:17 pm

Too nad this topic didn't take off. Still want my UBI though.

eightman · Post by **eightman** » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:53 am

Yes people need places to live, food to eat, etc.

Then you get that balancing game of people undermining the essentials they ought to be paying for and blowing basic income in other areas. I understand that there's technically no bad place for them to spend so long as it supports legitimate businesses, but I remember friends families growing up who would spend welfare on booze, cigs and junk, which did not help with their long term ability to contribute. That and being too poor to do much for entertainment besides get drunk and fuck meant members of these families often had more kids at earlier age.

So how do you balance giving people the means and freedom to live a meaningful life with giving people the means to fuck up their lives and compound the burden they impose on general society? Food stamps and rent subsidy programs in addition to a smaller income? Where does the tax revenue to pay for this come from? Would social housing programs be cut to give people the basic income to go out and compete? Lot of questions.

Calbrena · Post by **Calbrena** » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:48 pm

Lots of questions indeed. However, there are 2 factors to take into account:
- If bundling together some other forms of support which already existed, that means you can become more efficient. More efficiency= being able to employ fewer civil servants, which are paid with tax money anyway. So it's mostly about re-thinking the budget and allocating resources elsewhere.
- Right now, there are a lot of new productivity gains thanks to automation. So rather than train old workers to use slightly updated systems, it's just easier to phase them out as they retire (yay baby boomers finally retiring), then shift to an entirely new paradigm. Don't waste resources with small fixes, allocate resources towards building a whole new system, and get completely new people to work on it.

I know, easier said than done. However, both the current demographic shift and technological Revolution make it an ideal time to start working on it. Interesting times really.