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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:37 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

I don't claim to know exactly what they ought to have done to make that part clearer (fortunately I'm not a TV writer), but I believe with careful writing they could have set it up so that you can't know for sure what's happening ahead of time, but in retrospect you can go "ah, with this new information, what they were doing in that prior scene is cast in a new light!"

Instead, I find myself still looking at the scenes between Arya and Sansa and having no idea how much was "real" and when their plan was formulated. That to me is narrative-failure ambiguity rather than interesting ambiguity.
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OfflineLord Golbez
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:08 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Probably they could have done something. I'm more saying that I can understand why they did it the way they did, even if I don't necessarily think it was good.

Perhaps the simplest explanation is:
None of it was fake. Sansa decided to apply the "game" Littlefinger told her to his motivations after their conversation and any collusion between Sansa, Bran, and Arya occurred off camera and after that scene. However, I agree that there's not sufficient evidence to make that judgement and there are other points where they could have been faking. Perhaps it was real up to Arya handing the knife to Sansa for example, and then they started conspiring. I have difficulty believing the scene with Sansa finding the faces was for show though, because that would require someone else being there and there was no evidence for that. So I'd set the first likely point of when their plan starts as after that scene, which really doesn't leave a lot to be faked.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:36 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

There was no collusion. Arya knew Sansa was going to figure it out. Sansa figured it out on screen when Littlefinger was making his final play at turning her against Arya. You can see her face change when she realizes it's Littlefinger making a play, not Arya. Right when she says Arya would by Lady of Winterfell, which they'd just established she never wanted to be an episode ago.
The RDM didn't think that part was forced/failed at all.
Just disappointing Littlefinger went down so easily after his machinations got him so far.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:04 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

I buy the RDM's explanation. It seemed to me most likely that's when Sansa was figuring it out anyway. I can't quite say why I was disappointed, except I just didn't get the same satisfaction out of it that I usually get when Arya kills someone. Maybe it was too quick.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:07 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

That counts as the RDM being right.

At least Littlefinger cried.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:05 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Remember when the idea of a Game of Thrones thread was preposterous?
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OfflineLord Golbez
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:55 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

This thread is kind of preposterous though.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Both what LG and RDM said sound plausible and likely. And if they're true, then my problem is more that I didn't really buy the Arya/Sansa conflict, despite their childhood issues (and later separate issues).
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

But now this thread is going to be dead for like 18 months.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:55 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

That's preposterous!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

The RDM just came up with an idea. The end of the conversation between Cersei and Tyrion, wherein Tyrion "convinces" Cersei to help fight The Night King, occurs off screen. What does Tyrion promise her that makes her pretend to change her mind?

Bear in mind that Tyrion was hounding Dany about setting up a succession plan a few episodes ago.

Tyrion totally promises a Theon-style ward setup where Cersei's impending baby becomes Dany's heir, thereby uniting all the claims. That's why he's so sad that Jon and Dany are doing incest on the boat.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:12 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Good thinking, RDM. That doesn't sound too far-fetched.

Though if it's true, I guess the offer was not sufficiently appealing for our friend Cersei.

Also, I heard that some people were thinking that Arya is actually dead and another Faceless Man (the girl she was fighting) is pretending to be her. I don't really buy this one. What do you think?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

The offer probably wasn't appealing enough because Cersei isn't really pregnant.

Nope. That's Arya. It being the Waif would be too dumb.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

GASP!

Dumber than everyone risking their important lives to kidnap a wight?

Yeah, probably.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:43 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:21 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

I don't.... that gif is weird...
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:49 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

It's Tyrions all the way down!
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:51 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

smeared ink wrote:
When was it formed? How much of their conflict was real?

I would say the moment when Arya gives the dagger to Sanza is the answer.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:16 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

smeared ink wrote:
Both what LG and RDM said sound plausible and likely. And if they're true, then my problem is more that I didn't really buy the Arya/Sansa conflict, despite their childhood issues (and later separate issues).
Agree, it was really poorly written. For the sake of generosity I'll chalk it up to being the type of storyline that really needs to play out in small ways over a long period of time, but had to be rushed because there is no more time.

I still don't really get what the writers were thinking, though, even with the hints they included.


ie: the talk of Arya "wanting to know what it would be like to be lady of Winterfell" or wanting to take over, which she never has, being the tipoff in both the sisters-argument episode and the littlefinger-stabby episode. The handing of the dagger was symoblic.

One also wonders how involved (or not) Bran was. Like dude, you're a living encyclopedia. Maybe give your fuckin' family a heads up before they go killing each other?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:23 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

At some point Bran must have told them something. He's the only one who could have known some of the details they revealed including what Littlefinger did to their father. It's just unclear exactly when he told them.
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