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OfflineJoei
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:05 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Can't believe this game I'm not playing isn't getting better.
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OfflineLord Golbez
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

I've been not playing FFXV for months and it still hasn't gotten better!
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:06 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Damien wrote:
It does get (even) better. I've finished the second palace and now finally have some time to breathe and build up social links. I hear it gets a lot better still. What are you playing instead HKK?


I'm not playing anything. Games aren't exactly a hobby of mine anymore.
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OfflineJoei
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah you should stop playing videogames.

Finished the game yesterday and apart from the last 15 hrs or so dragging a bit for me personally (took me 98 hrs) it was a perfect persona game.
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OfflineLord Golbez
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:27 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

I somehow had the impression you were both further along and less time in, and that confirms it. I'm over 100 hours and in November.

This is speculation which only Joei (of those here) would know if it's accurate, but regarding where I am in the plot

Akechi is obviously playing them all for fools. It's understandable that he has the party in a no win situation, but it's frustrating to me that none of the characters see that he's deceiving them. 1. He lied about when he first discovered the metaverse. It was well over a month before that he heard something only Morgana said. This could have just been a mistake but there's so many other reasons. 2. Ryuji said he sounded like his motivation was like theirs, but that's not true, it sounded much more menacing. 3. He chose the spot for their next infiltration. I understand they can't really fight this, but don't they realize that they just acknowledged having an outsider choose their target was what went wrong previously? 4. Now he's controlling the timing of the calling card? These guys are idiots to play along with that part. It's almost so telegraphed that it's a trap that I have to partly think the game just wants me to think he's bad and he actually isn't.

Well, it's not speculation anymore since I got past that point, but

I'm glad that it turned out they were actually aware of the problem in what Akechi was saying.
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OfflineJoei
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:21 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

I missed the clue about the pancakes. In my head I thought Ann was talking about pancakes so didn't suspect anything. They really did that scene well. I like how the game got around this part of the story by having it be the protaganist failing to recall it properly because of being drugged in interrogation.
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OfflineCalbrena
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
Finished the game yesterday and apart from the last 15 hrs or so dragging a bit for me personally (took me 98 hrs) it was a perfect persona game.

Interesting. Compared to 4, how much better is it, in your opinion?
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OfflineJoei
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:04 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Calbrena wrote:
Quote:
Finished the game yesterday and apart from the last 15 hrs or so dragging a bit for me personally (took me 98 hrs) it was a perfect persona game.

Interesting. Compared to 4, how much better is it, in your opinion?
Its not insanely better but its better and the formula is perfectly refined. I'm biased in that I'm pretty sick of the P4 characters at this point.
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OfflineLord Golbez
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:32 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Haven't finished yet but I think I'll have a hard time choosing a favorite among P3, P4, and P5, just like I go back and forth between P3 and P4. They all have things I love about them.

Also, Whims of Fate is maybe not as good as Heaven, but still a good late palace song.

I didn't remember specifically that it was pancakes until they started showing partial flashbacks. I just made a mental note at the time that Akechi had responded to something that only Morgana said, which meant he was surely a Persona user even at that time. So his story sounded like a lie to me. Anyway, I agree it was handled very well. Completely like a heist film, which is appropriate for the Phantom Thieves.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:04 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, think I'm gonna check out on this.

The pacing is atrocious.

As someone with responsibilities, who wants to get to the meat of the game, I have no patience for it. I'm used to 4-8 hours tutorials and intros. I'm a jrpg fan so of course I am. But Persona 5 borders on ridiculousness. It's probably the same old Persona, I don't know. But I don't have time for a game to get 25-30 hours to get good anymore. Between Jiu Jitsu, my art, and other life shit I simply don't have the time and it's not a shock that the people who seem to like it most are also people who have the time to beat it in two weeks.

Bought Wonder Boy: The Dragon's Trap remake and ahhhhhhhh, much better. A game that gets to business ASAP. No time wasting. Just back to basics awesome gameplay.

Thinking of trading it in for Fire Emblem Echoes. Will be nice to play an actual game and not a glorified visual novel. Doom made the right call by not buying it. My final Persona.
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OfflineJoei
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:48 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

I have a full time job. It doesn't take 25-30 hrs to get good. You beat the first palace and the game opens up. It's literally the same as other persona games and you know what you are getting into if you are a SMT fan. Why did you even buy it?

Everyones I know is playing it at their own pace and not being a little bitch about it. We are all busy - your life isn't special. You are worse than the kinds of people who declare they don't play videogames anymore.
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OfflineLord Golbez
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Joei wrote:
I have a full time job. It doesn't take 25-30 hrs to get good. You beat the first palace and the game opens up. It's literally the same as other persona games and you know what you are getting into if you are a SMT fan. Why did you even buy it?


I disagree. You get some free time after the first palace, but it's very little. Then you have to deal with several consecutive days of both after school and evening used up by story. The game doesn't really open up until the second palace. I would say after the second palace, but you could choose to finish that later than I did and use your free time earlier. You're wrong if you think this game give you as much free time as previous Persona games. It doesn't. That's balanced by some other stuff that helps you to get more out of your social links later anyway, but there's no question that larger blocks of time with no choice on what to do occur throughout the game. It doesn't bother me as much as it does HKK, but even I was pissed that Almost the entire month of October is taken from you .

It's not a visual novel though at all. The pacing on some of the story stuff is a little off, but there's plenty of gameplay to be had.
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OfflineJoei
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:52 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

You get as much free time as persona 4. I really don't get the issue.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:54 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Joei wrote:
Why did you even buy it?


Persona 3 is my favorite rpg. I've been waiting for this game for nine years. What the fuck do you expect me to do?
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OfflineLord Golbez
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:13 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

I don't think you get as much free time as Persona 4. In fact, I'm pretty sure Maxing the Confidants is only even possible because there are more night time confidants than in P4 (also more automatic confidants I think). That's arguably a good thing, but it leaves less time for doing non-social link type activities (yes, you can choose to do them anyway, but they seem less worthwhile - the part time jobs barely matter in this game, for instance), which makes the freedom feel smaller.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

HKK wrote:
(stuff)


The formula hasn't gotten worse. You've changed. No big deal. I think you've been left wanting something more from the game given the time/money you put into it. But you don't have to play it.
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OfflineLord Golbez
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

The formula is pretty much the same. The execution is different. As someone who very much enjoys this game, I still can't understand why you guys won't concede to HKK that there are significant differences in pacing between P3 and P5. To a much greater extent than previous games freedom in gameplay pretty much always plays second fiddle to story progression. This was already true of P4 to a greater extent than P3, and P5 continues that progression. I was 6 hours into the game before I had a single bit of free time where I could decide what to do. By comparison, in P4 that's like 2-3 hours. In P3, maybe 1-1.5 at most?

It's not just the slow start either. At several points in the game you just do story sequence day after day. TO make matters worse these segments are broken up by the illusion of control where you get to choose to go to bed, but pretty much nothing else. If it was so important for narrative flow to not allow any freedom during these periods, why didn't they just break it up with chances to save in the middle instead of forcing you to "choose" to go to bed, even though that's your only actual option (okay sometimes you can give your plant nutrients too, big deal)? Persona 4 also has moments like this, but they typically don't last more than about 3 days. Here it's not uncommon for these to last over a week. P3, well it has things like exams, vacation, and school trip. But those are minor by comparison. Those things are still present in P5 and additionally you have these week plus long story sequences.

It's not the same thing. Like it or not the execution of the formula in Persona 5 is different.

Also, let's contrast P4/P5 with P3, because HKK has not really expressed the same love for Persona 4. Both Persona 4 and Persona 5 encourage you to do the dungeons in as few days as possible in order to get more free time. In Persona 3, going to Tartarus only once in a month would be suicide. Furthermore, there's no real reason to do that, because there are only 2 night time social links. Early on it's good to skip Tartarus some to raise social stats, but even then it's pretty easy to go a couple times a week. This creates more of a balance between social links and battling without encouraging you to take too huge chunks of time doing only one or the other. Mementos helps create some of that balance in P5, but not as much.

One more thing. Due to the length of the aforementioned story sequences, not only in calendar time, but also in real time, I can understand why someone who plays shorter gaming sessions than myself might not enjoy the game as much. The sequences are long enough that it would not be unusual for someone who plays shorter gaming sessions to have no input other than choosing to go to bed for a whole session.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:22 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

P3 gave you more free time at night, but less free time overall to do all social links. In P4, you had to clear the early dungeons in as few visits as possible in order to have the most time to raise your social stats early on, which was required to max all links, but then later you actually end up with a lot more breathing room due to the front loading. P4's difficulty and time management were completely lopsided and not handled too well. It's been too long since I played P3 so I can't comment definitively there, plus I didn't break P3 down to the same degree.
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OfflineLord Golbez
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:33 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

I feel like P3 is even more lopsided when it comes to max social links because it's important to maximize your social stats early. Once you do that, you have only two night social links and when they're maxed you pretty much just have sleep, Tartarus, or walk the dog at night.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by P3 gave less time overall to do social links. If you mean that there's not a lot of extra time beyond the time for maxing all the links, I agree. However, since there are very few social links at night, it means you have more free time to do non-social link activities that boost social stats at night. There are 7 night social links (I think) in P5, and fewer calendar days to work with overall. It's balanced by some things, like the Temperance Social Link skills that save you time, Fortune social link that can boost your affinity, and ranking up social stats when you meet with some people, but overall it feels tighter. You might technically have more free days to play with, but P3 is "easy" in the sense that you know you always do a social link after school and save other stuff for night. Here, you have to balance it with other after school activities (that's also true in Persona 4, just maybe not as much). Then again, I've probably gotten closer to maxing social links on a first playthrough of this than I did for either P3 or P4. I just feel like that's because I was stressed about really always going for the social link because it didn't feel like there was much time to do other stuff. Obviously, having more social links at night means it's easier to max everything, but it also means you have less freedom at night as compared to P3 and P4. And yes, of course you can still elect to do other things at night, but when push comes to shove, you just have fewer free time slots, period.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:09 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

By "free time to do social links" I mean exactly that. Because most links had to be done in the afternoon, every single day was critical. In P3, you often were not guaranteed a rank-up per session, even if you brought a corresponding Arcana Persona, and there were more harmful dialogue choices that actually hurt your progression. This is different from P4, where this was rarely the case. Also, you mention walking Koromaru which wasn't in P3 vanilla, which I guess is another distinction that needs to be made. P3 vanilla had by far the hardest max social link route.

Not to mention that Minato was much more of a blank slate in P3, and the social link characters more capricious, which made the social link progression, at least to me, seem more significant when you finally did pull it off. On the other hand, Yu was not so subtly a charismatic badass, and P4 social links seemed more like the inevitable capitulation of every link character to his effortless seductive powers.
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OfflineLord Golbez
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, I never played P3 Vanilla. P3 FES was the first Persona game I ever played.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Doom wrote:
By "free time to do social links" I mean exactly that. Because most links had to be done in the afternoon, every single day was critical. In P3, you often were not guaranteed a rank-up per session, even if you brought a corresponding Arcana Persona, and there were more harmful dialogue choices that actually hurt your progression. This is different from P4, where this was rarely the case. Also, you mention walking Koromaru which wasn't in P3 vanilla, which I guess is another distinction that needs to be made. P3 vanilla had by far the hardest max social link route.

Not to mention that Minato was much more of a blank slate in P3, and the social link characters more capricious, which made the social link progression, at least to me, seem more significant when you finally did pull it off. On the other hand, Yu was not so subtly a charismatic badass, and P4 social links seemed more like the inevitable capitulation of every link character to his effortless seductive powers.


Yes!

Exactly why P3 is in my top 10 but P4 is like,"it's a good game" status for me. P4 made a couple of improvements but overall I just enjoyed the game considerably less for multiple reasons.

Now I wait for game for 9 years and get this. It's really disappointing.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

It's a minor point, but it brings up an interesting narrative vs. gameplay considerations. In P3 there were many days where, even if you were playing optimally, you had to just "spend time" with someone without reaching the next rank. This makes more sense in a realistic context, rather than just reaching a breakthrough every time you see that person. On the other hand, it significantly increased the difficulty for a completionist. But on the third hand, it makes the max social link route in P3 a much more notable accomplishment. And don't forget that nearly half the P4 links were story characters. P3 actually had a broader web of interaction because, at least with the male MC, you didn't have links with the male members of SEES, so those Arcana were filled with people like Kenji and so on. P3 and P4 were just so different thematically. P4 has more polish but in terms of storytelling, it's completely reasonable that one game wouldn't be definitively "better" than the other to a lot of people.

P4 just gets all the attention because it broke out and then carried itself with all the spin-offs. But P3 was the turning point for the entire franchise. It discovered this formula for console success (albeit unrealized until P4) after a prolific but probably financially middling series of PS2 releases (Nocturne, DDS, Raidou). If you will, it was Atlus's Demon's Souls, creatively speaking—quite appropriate since Atlus was the one who actually introduced Souls to the West.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Doom wrote:
It's a minor point, but it brings up an interesting narrative vs. gameplay considerations. In P3 there were many days where, even if you were playing optimally, you had to just "spend time" with someone without reaching the next rank. This makes more sense in a realistic context, rather than just reaching a breakthrough every time you see that person. On the other hand, it significantly increased the difficulty for a completionist. But on the third hand, it makes the max social link route in P3 a much more notable accomplishment. And don't forget that nearly half the P4 links were story characters. P3 actually had a broader web of interaction because, at least with the male MC, you didn't have links with the male members of SEES, so those Arcana were filled with people like Kenji and so on. P3 and P4 were just so different thematically. P4 has more polish but in terms of storytelling, it's completely reasonable that one game wouldn't be definitively "better" than the other to a lot of people.

P4 just gets all the attention because it broke out and then carried itself with all the spin-offs. But P3 is the turning point for the entire franchise. It discovered this formula for console success (albeit unrealized until P4) after a prolific but probably financially middling series of PS2 releases (Nocturne, DDS, Raidou).


There was no way you could max all slinks in 3 without optimal planning, which is why I actually had to make a calendar irl. I just don't understand why people would not prefer this approach.

But it's whatever. I think this is my last Persona.

I'm just hoping they don't try to Persona-ize SMT. I need a dungeon crawler in replacement for Persona 5 being so disappointing. I think I'm going to go for an EO game.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:46 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

HKK wrote:
Doom wrote:
It's a minor point, but it brings up an interesting narrative vs. gameplay considerations. In P3 there were many days where, even if you were playing optimally, you had to just "spend time" with someone without reaching the next rank. This makes more sense in a realistic context, rather than just reaching a breakthrough every time you see that person. On the other hand, it significantly increased the difficulty for a completionist. But on the third hand, it makes the max social link route in P3 a much more notable accomplishment. And don't forget that nearly half the P4 links were story characters. P3 actually had a broader web of interaction because, at least with the male MC, you didn't have links with the male members of SEES, so those Arcana were filled with people like Kenji and so on. P3 and P4 were just so different thematically. P4 has more polish but in terms of storytelling, it's completely reasonable that one game wouldn't be definitively "better" than the other to a lot of people.

P4 just gets all the attention because it broke out and then carried itself with all the spin-offs. But P3 is the turning point for the entire franchise. It discovered this formula for console success (albeit unrealized until P4) after a prolific but probably financially middling series of PS2 releases (Nocturne, DDS, Raidou).


There was no way you could max all slinks in 3 without optimal planning, which is why I actually had to make a calendar irl. I just don't understand why people would not prefer this approach.

But it's whatever. I think this is my last Persona.

I'm just hoping they don't try to Persona-ize SMT. I need a dungeon crawler in replacement for Persona 5 being so disappointing. I think I'm going to go for an EO game.
but would you have time to make an irl calendar with your amazingly hectic social life in the way?
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OfflineDoom
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:46 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

I was tempted to pose that question right after I saw the post. But HKK has always spoken impulsively without sufficient self-reflection. I still get her point, but it's not exactly rigorously argued. And I won't do it for her.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:35 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

I finally finished this game. I definitely agree with Joei about the ending dragging a bit.

Part of that is because Shido's palace has unnecessarily long hallway sections that kind of drag, but mostly I felt like it started to drag after Shido. The final dungeon isn't necessarily too long either, it's more the in between story sections there, combined with a pretty significant amount of story after the final boss. Actually, that's probably the weakest part to me, The ending was fine, I don't have a problem with it. I just think that there wasn't necessarily a big enough payoff in the ending to warrant the amount of time between beating the final boss and seeing "Fin." It would have been nice if it were a little more streamlined. It was a satisfying ending made somewhat less satisfying because after waiting like an hour plus past the final boss, it makes me feel like I just want something bigger. The ending is not terribly different from Persona 4's, but Persona 4 gets you there more quickly. And it's not exactly like I would charge Persona 4 with having a laconic script

By the way, Palace 6, the Casino, is the best one of the game, which is interesting because Heaven was the 6th TV dungeon in Persona 4 and also the best of the game.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:51 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Eh, it's not like I haven't considered it. I just don't know.

Not sure why you're so offended by my time argument. Beating a 100 hour game in two weeks requires a lot of time. I know people who have beaten in one. Not calling people who have beaten it losers or anything. Just saying that my time is limited and I just can't be assed to play a game that takes forever to get good. If I had my old game playing habits, I would have surpassed my current progress in P5 by the time the weekend was over. But that isn't those days and I can progress only so much.

P3's structure allowed me to remain engaged and as if I was making good progress even during short sessions.

Maybe Doom is right and I've changed. Or maybe they're still the same and I just have different priorities. Either way, games aren't the same for me anymore. So maybe I wouldn't. But I'm not sure why that makes my criticism for P5's structure invalid. Comes across like a bad non-sequitur.

And I am being extremely self reflective. You think that when I make arguments in favor for P3 I'm not thinking internally "would I like that as much now as I did then?" I'm just failing to communicate it because such a thought is utterly depressing to me for whatever reason. I don't see why my current enjoyment of games means I cannot critique. I'm very much aware that there's a possibility that I continue to buy the same games I would have liked a long time ago with the knowledge that they might not be for me anymore. Like, I enjoy FFXV a lot for instance but my attention gets lost and I lose interest in playing further. This doesn't mean I didn't enjoy what I played though, and in a similar fashion I've lost all interest in Persona 5 but that doesn't make my critcisims towards it invalid just because I loved P3.

Honestly, I'm at a point with games where I'm not sure if I've outgrown games or if games have somehow outgrown me. That doesn't mean I can't play them and make opinions about them.

My critcisims aren't impulsive and I think I've given the game more than a fair shot.

Persona 3 does not lock the player into endless monotomy. I started the second dungeon in P5 last week and I wasn't allowed to even do the dungeon because of its on rails structure. In Persona 4 for instance, you unlock a dungeon and to my memory - this is the sticky part because I'm going by memory - when you unlocked a dungeon you do dungeon. You aren't kicked out against your will to investigate and find more info and do more story crap. This doesn't happen in P3 either. But again, let's be fair, and maybe I'm remembering things wrong. But I don't think I am.

Furthermore, none of this takes away from the fact that Persona 3's structure lended to making personal decisions within the sim. In P3 it felt like each choice you made mattered. Stats took ages to level up, social links also took effort, the fatigue system impacted the simulation requiring you to sometimes not to go too overboard in Tartaros at night or else you would limit the things you could do later, if you were dating one slink you couldn't date another without it blowing up in your face and the character no longer listening to the MC in battles. P3 was a game of ramifications and choice was distinctly tied into the game design. It wasn't that easy to min-max. This kind of design is appealing to me with or without time, because I enjoy games where I can make the wrong choice. Now, given all of I've played of Persona 5 maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the choices you make do matter. But when the choices are being made for me, it's hard to see that.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:06 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

It took me a lot more than 100 hours. I know I take my time with these kind of games, but it still seems crazy to me how quickly Joei got through it when I saw how much time it took me (over 140 hours). It actually made me assume it would end sooner (like around when I reached the 120ish hour mark).
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:16 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

And sure, when I made my little calendar and stuff, I was in college and had plenty of free time. But the design of the game necessitated that I do this. I did the same thing when replaying P3. It has nothing to do with "hey, this game is fun, I'm going to make a calendar" it's more like "there's a lot of choices in this game and I need to balance them out". I just felt like I needed to do it, any time I played it.

TBH, if we got P5 like in 2012 or whatever I would have loved it then even if it's the same as it is now.

But I waited 9 years and it felt like a downgrade in some ways to even P4 for every improvement they did make. The nine year wait is probably what stings the most. Here I thought FFXV would suck because lol ten years, and I like that game a lot. But it turns out it was P5 I thought was just kind ok. Weird.

Anyways, making light of the time investment the game requires just comes across as petty or willfully dismissive.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Fuck just sell the game already! The fact you enjoy FF15 alot more compared to this means there's no hope for you. You are the one who mocked the sorts of people who have put time into it.

Golbez that palace is the exact point I wanted the game to just be over just like you. and yes 6 is the best!

I thought I was taking my time- till palace 6, then I got impatient.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:43 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

I won't sell it. I'll keep going. I like the story so far, but I'm not the type of rpg player who subsists on story alone.

Also, I never mocked anyone for the time investment required. I merely articulated that I do not have the time I once may have had that would allow me to properly enjoy the game. You were offended by words. I'm sorry if you were, it was never my intention to mock. I am just articulating that most of the people defending the game are also people who are capable of beating a 100 hour game within a few weeks which allows them the opportunity to not really care about the poor pacing of the game. The pacing of the game won't bother you if you're doing long play sessions. I never meant it as an insult much less mockery and I'm sorry if you thought it was.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Also, regarding the final boss (obviously final boss spoilers in the tag), I felt like

Yaldabaoth came a bit from out of nowhere. In Persona 3, there were months of lead-up knowing Nyx was coming and was reputedly impossible to defeat. In Persona 4, there was not so much building up, but at least they covered the story of Izanami and Izanagi in school. It kind of made sense that if your main character's Persona is Izanagi, then you would expect Izanami as a counterforce at some point. Furthermore, there were some nagging questions left from the murder investigation that seemed to tie up nicely once Izanami was revealed.

By contrast, as far as I recall, Yaldabaoth isn't even mentioned prior to the ending when you actually face him. The Holy Grail is mentioned in school, but only in a question related to cards, it doesn't go into the lore about it really (I do think it's a pretty good choice for the ultimate treasure though). Also, it's not like the boss was Sherlock Holmes or Herlock Sholmes or something like that, so that we should expect it with Arsene (that would have been stupid anyway). Furthermore, the only nagging question to be resolved after Shido was about Morgana's origins. That's something I guess. Leaving that aside though, I tend to think that having major mythological figures as final bosses loses some impact when the player doesn't know the story behind them. Persona 3 and 4 made sure to tell us what we need to know about Nyx and Izanami, respectively. I had to look up Yaldabaoth to realize it was a name for the Demiurge. Once I understood that, it contextualized a lot of stuff in the ending for me, but it would have been nice to have an "Aha! It's Yaldabaoth" moment instead of a "Yaldabaoth? Who's that? Probably someone from actual mythology, but I'll have to look it up later I guess."

Apparently, Yaldabaoth has appeared in other SMT games, so maybe they were relying on players to have that background knowledge, but they should be aware Persona has a larger audience than the other SMT games.
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

All JRPG's, especially SMT's devolve into having to fight a god at the end - and I don't like this. I do agree Persona 3 handled that part the best. The last boss was more impressive when he was impersonating Igor.

I was hoping Arsene would become more interesting towards the end but that didn't happen.

I liked that in Morgana's dreams his eyes were yellow representing an attendant of the Velvet Room and not a Shadow.
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

I don't mind it devolving into fighting a god. This is maybe an issue of an overused cliche for JRPGs in general, but for Persona, I don't have a huge problem with it. To me, Persona/SMT is deeply rooted in mythology, and I pretty much expect this from the series. I just would have liked to see a better set up in this case. Perhaps on a replay, if I do replay it, I'll see things I missed the first time. As for now though, I don't think they set up the final boss even as well as Persona 4, let alone Persona 3.

I didn't really take notice of the yellow eyes thing. Good catch. I was also happy to find out that Morgana was not just a repeat of Teddy. I was actually expecting the twist to be that Morgana was the jailer at some point, so I'm glad that's not the turn it took. It's funny too because when I initially complained about Igor's new voice, some people were saying Atlus must have done that for a story reason and I had that in my head throughout the game, but I never quite believed them. I thought Atlus had just made an uncharacteristically poor casting decision. I think real Igor's voice was maybe still someone new (not sure, and he didn't talk much), but at least it had the right quality to it.
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

I guess I can't really contribute to this thread any more until I've finished the game
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:31 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

I'd be happy to discuss non-spoiler or early spoiler stuff if you have something.
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 7:43 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Last night, I played about an hour and 20 minutes of P5. Towards the end of the session, it struck me that it had been all chatting/cutscenes with less than a minute of actual moving about and zero gameplay. Despite that most of what happened was drivel, for some reason I still enjoyed it. This'd make sense if I was an anime/manga fan, but most of the time I can't even be bothered to watch TV at all. I guess there must be something about the plot and characters here, to keep me watching school children chatting for an hour and a half
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 10:14 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Damien wrote:
Last night, I played about an hour and 20 minutes of P5. Towards the end of the session, it struck me that it had been all chatting/cutscenes with less than a minute of actual moving about and zero gameplay. Despite that most of what happened was drivel, for some reason I still enjoyed it. This'd make sense if I was an anime/manga fan, but most of the time I can't even be bothered to watch TV at all. I guess there must be something about the plot and characters here, to keep me watching school children chatting for an hour and a half
This is true. I tried to start a new game plus though and found I don't have patience to watch this again
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 9:51 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

I'm definitely going to wait awhile before I do a new game plus. Give myself some chance to forget some things and miss the game a bit.
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 11:08 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Maybe just hold off for the remake/port?
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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 11:27 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

That might be a good idea. We'll see. There's some things you can only do in new game plus in this game but it still might be best to hold off for the port.
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 7:37 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Damien wrote:
Last night, I played about an hour and 20 minutes of P5. Towards the end of the session, it struck me that it had been all chatting/cutscenes with less than a minute of actual moving about and zero gameplay.


Yep. It barely functions as an RPG. It's an over glorified visual novel. There were VN aspects to past Persona's but not to this degree. It's probably the biggest I've ever seen a game company sell out. Limited player input and engagement, endless cutscenes, and linearity. What month are you at? If it's past where I am I'll probably kiki pretty hard. Phoenix Wright has more player input. If story is your thing in RPGs, P5 might be your style. Unfortunately, I only played one rpg series for story and it's dead. Welp.
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Wasn't the Persona series always a lot of talking to other kids in school or whatever?
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

HKK wrote:
Damien wrote:
Last night, I played about an hour and 20 minutes of P5. Towards the end of the session, it struck me that it had been all chatting/cutscenes with less than a minute of actual moving about and zero gameplay.


Yep. It barely functions as an RPG. It's an over glorified visual novel. There were VN aspects to past Persona's but not to this degree. It's probably the biggest I've ever seen a game company sell out. Limited player input and engagement, endless cutscenes, and linearity. What month are you at? If it's past where I am I'll probably kiki pretty hard. Phoenix Wright has more player input. If story is your thing in RPGs, P5 might be your style. Unfortunately, I only played one rpg series for story and it's dead. Welp.


I'm in June.
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 9:58 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Cid wrote:
Wasn't the Persona series always a lot of talking to other kids in school or whatever?
Yeah HKK has a bad memory. It's exactly the same. P3, the perfect game to HKK was basically a visual novel so on portable they took out the cutscenes and made it look more like one.
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

It's unlikely that they won't also do some sort of FES/Golden type thing with this one.
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

I just wonder what console it will be for. They're going to have to do some serious downgrading like for P3P to get this on the Vita.
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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Damien wrote:
HKK wrote:
Damien wrote:
Last night, I played about an hour and 20 minutes of P5. Towards the end of the session, it struck me that it had been all chatting/cutscenes with less than a minute of actual moving about and zero gameplay.


Yep. It barely functions as an RPG. It's an over glorified visual novel. There were VN aspects to past Persona's but not to this degree. It's probably the biggest I've ever seen a game company sell out. Limited player input and engagement, endless cutscenes, and linearity. What month are you at? If it's past where I am I'll probably kiki pretty hard. Phoenix Wright has more player input. If story is your thing in RPGs, P5 might be your style. Unfortunately, I only played one rpg series for story and it's dead. Welp.


I'm in June.




Joei wrote:
Cid wrote:
Wasn't the Persona series always a lot of talking to other kids in school or whatever?
Yeah HKK has a bad memory. It's exactly the same. P3, the perfect game to HKK was basically a visual novel so on portable they took out the cutscenes and made it look more like one.


Never played P3P. In fact, I always avoided P3P. Always seemed like a downgrade version to me. And I never said P3 was perfect. That's just you assuming things again, because all you know how to do is be a smart ass.

Lord Golbez wrote:
I just wonder what console it will be for. They're going to have to do some serious downgrading like for P3P to get this on the Vita.


Switch.
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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote Back to top

Just pointing out that by your definition P3 is as much a visual novel as P5 is.
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